How much hp and dur

[Sapreaver]

Please post a Cropped screen shot with your hp and dur
so people can try to work out forumulae for hp the more levels and more dur samples we can get for each level the better

no tempers

[Duvopaz]

we dont want to be cookie cutters

[Smashbros]

the more dur you have, the less hp you get per point of dur.

i believe ugo worked out a rough estimate of how it all works, but im not sure, or even sure if he still has it all.

but providing screenshots of our dur and hp wont help at all.

btw tempers effect how much hp you get per dur point, as it adds to your base hp and therefore you get less per dur point straight away, compared to if you had no tempers, you would get more per point, but have less over all cause your base hp is lower.

what... tempers effect how much dur adds... are you serious

so you think if if i temper my equipment then add 100 dur ill have a different figure than if I add 100 dur then temper my equipment....

im gonna need proof of this cus im 99% sure it doesnt work like that


btw this thread is a good idea but no where near enough people will participate in it for it to be worthwhile

[Conqueror]

There is a base number of hit points.

And then durability adds to this base.

The hitpoints that come from durability are not considered base hitpoints however.

The higher you increase durability, the less hitpoints you get per point of durability.

So basically when you temper your stuff, you increase your base hitpoint total so durability gives less per point than it would if your items were not tempered.

This is easy to see if you temper your stuff with a high enough durability total. Tempers will not increase your hitpoint totals as much as they indicate. That is because your durability is now less effective.

That is the way I think it works.



EDIT:

Another way to think of it is this:

Dur gets less effective as it approaches a certain number (you get less and less hitpoints per point of dur).

Tempers add to the base hitpoint total and basically bring you closer to this certain number so that your dur is less effective with the tempers in play.

It takes a high amount of dur and relatively high level tempers for this effect to manifest itself clearly --- not sure if you will be able to see it with low dur and rank 1 tempers.

ok im gonna point out a huge flaw in your thinking here

1.you relocate points to dur
2.you temper an item increasing your base hp
3.you then relocate points from dur to another stat and according to your logic you will lose less max hp than you gained from originally moving points to dur
4.remove temper and you have more hp than you started with
5.repeat

if you are correct getting near infinite hp is possible

either im right or jeff ows me a lot of tcs

[Conqueror]

What I am trying to say is this:

Everyone has a certain base hitpoint total that accounts for their particular level.

Leave out durability completely for now.

To this base hitpoint total you add temper hitpoints (which are also base hitpoints).

And then on top of all of this, you add in the hitpoints that come from durability.

How durability works depends on this base hitpoint total (original base + tempers).

The higher your base, the less effective durability is but you might not see this effect unless you have a lot of durability and relatively high level tempers.

I think Durability works on a curve. Approach the leveling off point of the curve and you will get a certain minimum number of hitpoints / point of durability. Basically tempers bring you closer to the leveling off point of the curve.

yes and if that is true then you can get infinite hp since you will be able to change your spot on the curve to suit yourself

or are you saying that its possible that someone will remove 1k worth of tempers but not lose 1k hp since it will be recalculated.... either way the logic is still highly flawed

and these are the only 2 possibilities for what you are saying since if its not recalculated infinite hp for all if it is then tempers dont actually give you the amount they say

[Conqueror]

No you won't. You still have a given base and then how durability works depends on that base.

Originally Posted by yoky

ok im gonna point out a huge flaw in your thinking here

1.you relocate points to dur
ok
2.you temper an item increasing your base hp
ok
3.you then relocate points from dur to another stat and according to your logic you will lose less max hp than you gained from originally moving points to dur
lets say you got your dur down to 0. You would be left with base hitpoints only. Your base total would be higher due to the tempers.
4.remove temper and you have more hp than you started with
remove tempers and you lose base hitpoints so with durability = 0 you would be left with your original base. Any durability points that you have would work as if you were lower on the curve (lower base hitpoint total).
5.repeat

if you are correct getting near infinite hp is possible

either im right or jeff ows me a lot of tcs

Basically durability works differently depending on your base hitpoint total. A higher base means you are closer to the leveling off point of the curve and dur gives less.


Again this is how I think it works. I could be wrong.

[Smashbros]

i dont think you understand completly yoky.

if you temper your items, no matter when, you increase your BASE hp.

BASE hp, is gained from lvling, tempers and what you start with.

all dur does, is add to this.

if you get 500dur, and then temper, you will get the same result as if you tempered, and then got the dur.

as you increase your dur, you get less hp PER point, but it still increases.


EG:

If i have start out, and i start adding dur, i might gain 4hp per point of dur (not exact.)

if i get to say, 500 dur, i might be getting 2 points per dur, but it would still increase my total hp.

now if i temper, before or after, it would lower the effects of my dur, to say 1 point per dur at 500 dur.

ok... im gonna try this one last time if this doesnt convince you i hope glitch will confirm it
I think this may have just been a misunderstanding though

just note tempers add to hp not dur and therefore the amount they add is constant


1.you relocate points to dur
now lets just say you start with dur at 0 with 0 hp and you add 100 and get 1000 hp from it

2.you temper an item increasing your base hp
lets give this a nice number as well like 1000

3.you then relocate points from dur to another stat and according to your logic you will lose less max hp than you gained from originally moving points to dur
now since you are saying that it will add less per point since you are on a different part of the curve then points taken away will take away less for the same reason. so if you take away the 100 dur you wont be taking away 1000hp

4.remove temper and you have more hp than you started with
now you can take of the temper and that removes a solid unchangeable 1000 hp but since you didnt lose 1000 hp when you took away the 100 dur you will have more hp then you started with

so therefore this is either a huge bug or tempers do not in any way effect how much hp dur adds

it is more likely hp is calculated from your dur in an independent equation (not effected by your hp) then temper hp is added on after

[Chrism]

It was stated previously (by me, and confirmed by ol' glitch, over here: http://forums.nodiatis.com/forums/pl...-question.html) that:

Total HP is dependent on DUR and Level

This was before tempers, so now, methinks,

Total HP = (Old way) + Temper

Thus, posting a screenshot with you HP, DUR, and Level, while listing all tempers, it might actually be possible to back-calculate it.

Originally Posted by Chrism

It was stated previously (by me, and confirmed by ol' glitch, over here: http://forums.nodiatis.com/forums/pl...-question.html) that:

Total HP is dependent on DUR and Level

This was before tempers, so now, methinks,

Total HP = (Old way) + Temper

Thus, posting a screenshot with you HP, DUR, and Level, while listing all tempers, it might actually be possible to back-calculate it.

thank you and stat enhancement lvls will also be needed... I think they effect tempers

[Conqueror]

It is not a bug Yoky.

Ok lets say that as a lvl 85 character your base hitpoint total is 3000. You have 0 dur and no tempers have been added yet.

Now lets say that with 600 durability you have 8000 hitpoints

Again no tempers have been added yet.

Base hitpoints = 3000

600 durability = 8000

Average hitpoint increase / point of durability = 5000 / 600 = 8.33

[actually, this is just an average]. In reality you would get more hitpoints / point of dur from 400 - 500 than you would get from 500 - 600.

Now lets say that you add tempers worth 4000 durability.

Base hitpoints = 7000

Now your 600 durability will not give you 8.33 hitpoints / point of durability. They will give less.

Lets say they give 4.33 hitpoints / point of durability.

So by your logic, you will lose less hitpoints if you delelevel durability which is true. You will only lose 4.33 hitpoints / point of durability.

Now if you get rid of your tempers, dur will again work differently. It will go back to the 8.33 figure.

You won't gain any hitpoints because your durability will work differently. It will not stay constant like your base hitpoint total will. Its value will fluctuate depending on how far along the curve you are. Get rid of tempers and your durability will instantly recalculate and have a different value because you will be lower on the curve.

I hope you understand now.

[Smashbros]

Originally Posted by yoky

ok... im gonna try this one last time if this doesnt convince you i hope glitch will confirm it
I think this may have just been a misunderstanding though

just note tempers add to hp not dur and therefore the amount they add is constant


1.you relocate points to dur
now lets just say you start with dur at 0 with 0 hp and you add 100 and get 1000 hp from it

2.you temper an item increasing your base hp
lets give this a nice number as well like 1000

3.you then relocate points from dur to another stat and according to your logic you will lose less max hp than you gained from originally moving points to dur
now since you are saying that it will add less per point since you are on a different part of the curve then points taken away will take away less for the same reason. so if you take away the 100 dur you wont be taking away 1000hp

4.remove temper and you have more hp than you started with
now you can take of the temper and that removes a solid unchangeable 1000 hp but since you didnt lose 1000 hp when you took away the 100 dur you will have more hp then you started with

so therefore this is either a huge bug or tempers do not in any way effect how much hp dur adds

it is more likely hp is calculated from your dur in an independent equation (not effected by your hp) then temper hp is added on after

doesnt work like that.

glitch has posted somewhere about the tempers, ill attempt to find it now.

Originally Posted by Glicthless

Note that the addition of tempers to the game will gradually and significantly increase the base hitpoint pool of players. The bonuses gained from durability will remain unchanged, however, with a larger starting base of hitpoints the % of life gained from durability will be naturally lessened. This will likely make other defense stats far more important than before for PvP viability.

ok, basically, your dur still adds to your hp, but the same as every other stat, the more you have, the less effective it becomes, as the effect is neared sooner, because of tempers, the more you have, the less you gain per point.

yes the % not the actual amount as in 1000 hp is a much larger % when added to 5k hp then it is than 10k hp

also you are saying that the amount tempers add is not constant in your post conq since once you remove the temper you will lose more hp than the temper says it has so that you have the same you started with... which tempers dont do.... which is why i stressed it by saying "solid unchangeable 1k"

[Sapreaver]

hp = base + (dur* (randomnumber/base))

base = level based hp + tempers

if you take off or add any armour it is recalculated it will not be static if you delevel your dur it will
recalculate when you click ok and it WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE for infinite hp

[Conqueror]

Originally Posted by yoky

yes the % not the actual amount as in 1000 hp is a much larger % when added to 5k hp then it is than 10k hp

also you are saying that the amount tempers add is not constant in your post conq since once you remove the temper you will lose more hp than the temper says it has so that you have the same you started with... which tempers dont do.... which is why i stressed it by saying "solid unchangeable 1k"

No I am not saying that Yoky. Or at least, I did not mean to say that.

I basically said that:

base hitpoints = original base hitpoints + tempers

And durability is the one that fluctuates depending on how close to the leveling off point of the curve you are.

If you look at what I said again, I only used the word fluctuate when I was referring to durability.

[Chrism]

Wow... you guys are really something

I haven't taken the time to read it all, but it's really simple.

Tempers are an additive bonus after all other calculations

If tempers were somehow added in before the calculations then they would have a greater (or lesser, i suppose) effect than they claim to on the end result. That's not how it works. If I have no tempers on my gear, and I add a 1x temper at level 77, my total hp goes up by 77. Not some wacky multiplicative result of recalculating my hp after adding it to this mysterious 'base hp'.

Still not one person has posted their own numbers... so I'll try to start something:

Chrism
Level: 77
DUR: 362
Tempers: None

HP: 4981

Regnar
Level: 77
DUR: 250
Tempers: None

HP: 3542

Reroller
Level: 50
DUR: 588
Tempers: 8 @ 3x, 3 @ 2x, 1500 Total extra HP

HP: 6734

[thatperson]

The bonuses gained from durability will remain unchanged

nuff said