casters are too OP

[RogueTigeR]

Gore.. i agree w/ u.. but i also agree some small balances could make game more... how u say.. fair.. or equal..

Its not how OP you are to a beginner, its the differneces b/t 2 OP toons w/ different builds/weaponry styles.

Balance issues and over powered are two different things.

Over Powered is at lvl 1 being able to 1 hit kill drunken fisherman. Balancing is tweeking something in a class or several of them for a fair equal chance of survival and killing.

[Smashbros]

Originally Posted by Gorefists

Over Powered is at lvl 1 being able to 1 hit kill drunken fisherman.

lol i done that on my alt yesterday lvl 1 doing crits of 76 FTW


also conq NO, not everyone would prefer a caster in a group for boss hunts.

we had a group heading out for the 93 boss.

2 constants: Me and Austen.

we tried random people. had casters, whip users, whip/shield user, etc.

we ended up killing it with a whip user.

the worst we done was with a caster, and he was capped.


Cause of the last patch casters are now WORSE to farm bosses with, as you can get an extra tank in the group and kill it easier.

i dont give a **** about archers tbh as this thread was NOT about them, it is about casters.

San and Thatp have said it, 30 sec kills = rare. the average kill speed for a caster is closer to 1 min. maybe 1.5min IF you count regen (sometimes longer for regen).

as a Piercer fighting white/yellow mobs i kill at around 30 sec for alot of fights and im far from OPed. hell i use a 2h weapon. and my skills arent at cap, hell my protection skills (besides 2) arent over 49.

point:

just cause YOU can not do it, does not make it OP, or wrong.

btw, no offence to anna, but if she has 13bil exp and cant kill faster then 1.5min, she should reroll. i have under 6bil exp and i can kill in 30-45 secs.

[Astor]

I'm siding with San and thatperson. My caster mid level, with gems +10 levels than his player level, +10 suit, +10 staff, and more, can rarely kill a mob in 30 seconds. Other times it can take me more than a minute easily waiting for mana and energy to rebuild in mid combat. Finally after 20 seconds of waiting being able to cast but one more gem. And then at the end of the fight I have to wait sometimes upwards of a minute to regen mana and energy...

And I agree with Smash /reroll, I don't see how you have 22 bil in skills and can't kill in 30 - 45s. Unless its all learning, social, adventuring , crafting...

I think the point here is not to say that caster are OP but instead to say that caster have a higher potential of farming trophies than melee at cap.

While the melee will need to do his maximum dmg 2 really good epic weapon or 1 2h epic weapon. and off course good stat and skill to do fully use the nice dmg the weapon do.

Caster will need a great pouch with good skills and stat to use it for maximum dmg.

caster kill faster (in average) but need to recharge mana so they need to wait, while melee will be able to do another battle right away.

Well :

A) all capped character have accel and prem and grinder so they wont lose RRT when they wait so the potential of making trophies dont drop because that wait wont reduce their RRT

B) usualy people farm ressource between battle so caster will recharge their mana at the cost of no real wait.

FACT :

for character with similar exp and funding, caster at cap will seems to farm about twice faster (maybe a bit less) ask really ubers characters how much trophies they get per hour if you dont beleive me.

For people who say its because melee might have a bad build well tell me what a character with full pet and weaponry skill around 85 and str and dex like every melee (550-600,280-320) and 2 slasher epic 81 or maybe crusher 89 epic, can do more to double is dmg output to be able to keep the fast as caster without having to spend 20B xp in skills because caster dont have to do that to be that strong.


The fact is there is nothing new, im not complaining about it i just try to explain it. The question is not what jeff will do, its up to him to find a solution.

The question is will he try to find one or will it stay like that?

[Sanluciferr]

I said i was done but it just pisses me off to see you guys pretending to know how it is ( not all of you, i know a few of you might have a close idea).

DDs do a lot of damage because of a simple reason, they cost a lot, they are expensive and ALL THE FREAKING METHODS THAT ARE OUT THERE TO PREVENT, RESIST, GROWL,VENGEFULSHOT,DEFLECT, REFLECT, MIRROR, BLOCK , etc.

Not to mention how hard is to keep your mana/energy in arena.... half of the fights casters are waiting for replenishes and on those seconds they cant do pretty much anything at all, they dont have good defense skills.

Yes yes we have the potential to farm faster, but are you serious are you going to take out or complain about our strong point? what about whippers? come on.... i dont like people who make threads complaining about something just because they saw a big number.

My left click is messed up of too much clicking already.

So what you're saying is that tanks should farm as fast as glass cannons? Casters would be the most retarded class if he "balances" their damage. They are already the worst class in 1v1 pvp and you guys have the audacity to further invade our areas of expertise?

let me enlighten you on what measures I've taken to enhance my farm speed.

armors: epic sleeves, epic leggings

adventuring: 70 plunderfiend

runes:

r4 pain (6% bonus to dps)
r4 assurance (8% more accuracy) <-- ideal for red/purple/blacks (my farm zone is red black)
r4 incantation (1-3 gems/fight)
r4 manatheft (4% mana leech) <-- ~150 mana back per fight


pouch:

1 r14 black recast DD (epic)
1 r13 red recast DD (epic)
3 r13 black recast DD
___________
4 r15 black recast DD
4 r15 red recast DD
4 r14 red OPD DD
4 r14 black OPD DD
__________
1 r8 flame call
1 r3 sloth
1 r2 gem-haste
__________
4 r5 invigorate
4 r6 invigorate
4 r5 manaburst
4 r6 manaburst
__________
4 derinium
4 berali
__________
2 balance

You see those 16 manabursts/invigorates? People call that insane but I still run out of mana and energy like a ..... and with mental conservation and staves at 69/70 to boot. The average fight consumes about 60% of my total mana and energy. Think about that.

I reiterate: my mana and energy levels vary violently. Why, there are even times when i am completely out of mana and my energy is still full. Unlike other casters, I don't just wait for it to recharge - no. I switch my r15 red recast on first slot with a r15 black recast and flow with it for 1-2 more fights until I can leech that mana back.

Also, arena is more than just a 10% farm bonus to me. When both pools are down (and the often are) it fills me right back up and I can safely finish my next fight within one minute. i can even store my trophies without wasting any valuable rt. Even my weaponry skills are pretty high. Any relevant +dps skill to my staff is 59 or higher. Just ask milkchan thatperson felixandru and megaman how they did against me with just the staff and no DD.

I've taken every measure I could to enhance my kill speed and so much so that my defenses are left with 20-30 skills (with the exception of mirrorbladed). If a team of 80s attacked me, I would last 3 seconds. 5 seconds max. Now tell me. What measures have you taken to enhance your farm speed? Have you tried out deathblow? Do you use whips with a rabid aura? What about DoTs... and DDs? Do you use them? I milk my character for all its got.

[Raith]

Originally Posted by klippi

Now tell me. What measures have you taken to enhance your farm speed? Have you tried out deathblow? Do you use whips with a rabid aura? What about DoTs... and DDs? Do you use them? I milk my character for all its got.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, etc. I milk mine for all I can too. I've tried pure arch, arch + 2H Deathblow, arch + whips + rabid, arch + DD, arch + DoT, arch + whips + rabid + DD, etc. I'm an archer, and I can agree that my grinding kill-speed is hardly one of the better trop-grinding builds. It's not at all.

On the other hand, I disagree with the OP entirely. A while back, I got my staves to 78, picked up an angelic, and saw how my r18 Blacks, a redist of my already similar stats, and a redo of my gem pouch would farm. With minimal work... it was terrible. Casting is hardly a level 5 skills and grind @ OP levels. It took me a lot of time and work and balance just to bring it close to my arch time. in the end, I just went back to arch. If casters were OP, my results would be more like when I redist and tried whips.

Well for myself i did'nt said that caster are OP directly.

Maybe i express myself wrong.

What i want to say is that they have the potential to become much better farmer than other kind of character (melee in that case).

Let's say that to have a really nice gear for melee you need 10M (fictive number)

Now let say the same melee have 40M to buy his stuff, well the farming speed wont change a lot, maybe 10-20% faster

Now for a caster if you have 10M you can have a decent pouch and equip, you will probably farm at a same speed as the melee.

But a caster with 40M will be able to farm much faster than the 10M one and much faster than the 40M melee character


Those number are fictive but i want to express the fact that caster in this game have a much bigger potential of being a uber farmer.

Being a uber farmer mean more trophies more drops and more epics which mean they will be the richer class.


For those who say that caster are harder to play, well its a game play style, the way you play your character should'nt affect the fact that they have more benifit (gold and xp reward) then other class.

For those who say tank will farm slower ... yes totally agree, but tank wont farm in their tank mode, its just stupid, tank will farm with dual 1h or 2h for maximum dmg and killing speed and will only use their "tank mode" for pvp and arena only.

Will you say a healer will farm with his healing pouch??? no he wont, he will farm with dmg gem and will use healing pouch for pvp arena only.


I really think that all class should have a equivalent farming speed for equivalent time spend (gold and xp)

Currently its not the case.

[Smashbros]

Originally Posted by MrBrux

For those who say that caster are harder to play, well its a game play style, the way you play your character should'nt affect the fact that they have more benifit (gold and xp reward) then other class.


I really think that all class should have a equivalent farming speed for equivalent time spend (gold and xp)

Currently its not the case.

ok i deleted everything else cause i wanted to point something out to you.

first part.

it is harder to play a caster, as you have to CAST, constantly, it doesnt do it automatically.

for a melee you click auto attack and then walk away and come back when its over.

that makes it harder for a caster, as they have to constantly watch the screen without doing other ****, and also can hurt their hand more through the repetitive motion of clicking.



second bit.

no. making everything equal is ****ing pointless and will ruin the game. so just no.

now before you comment again, i suggest you TRY the different builds and see which is harder to do, and which you would want to farm faster because of that.

[Sanluciferr]

And it shouldn't be.

Thank you for your point SmashBros,

So the character who click the most should have double reward because he click more ...

Because you will hurt your wrist you should make more reward ...

Jeff should say that to new character when they start : THE BEST CLASS IS THE CASTER BECAUSE YOU WILL HURT YOUR WRIST MORE ... man serously.

Hit you with a hammer, maybe you will get 10TC ...

Reward should'nt involve how hard you hurt yourself and how fast you will break your mouse ...


In the other half im really agree with you for the point that harder character to play should have more reward.

But melee/archer and BM (the main 3 other class of the game) dont have access to any way to play their character with more difficulty.

In other word all class but caster dont have a way to play harder.

I really think that all character should have the same amount of reward in pve for the same amount of time put in the game (appoximatly)

For some people who say they are'nt agree with that because that will destroy the game, well if caster is the best character in a long term, eventually people will be aware of that, noob will only start caster (mainly) and the nod's world will be full of caster.

I think if all class have even reward, in a long term, the amount of each class in the game will be even and the pvp will also earn from that.

So maybe what should be make is some gem that will give the auto attack class the way to play harder gameplay and so they will deserve to have the same reward caster have every day.

So im proposing that :

Make a way that auto attack class have to play harder (with some gem for example)

That way all caster wont complain about that change because they will have to play harder like you do.

Thanks for all your commentary its really interesting to see your point of view but if anyone what to share their numerical reward it should be nice.

I think the way to share numerical reward is by sharing how much trophies you can make in 1h of RT spend in your optimal farming place.

For example : I have 7B xp and im making about 138 trophies per hour at nlake.

Maybe with more numerical value we will be able to catch the problem more precisly

Thanks again

[thatperson]

or u know u can do like me and dont follow the damn cookie cutter build have a suit of melee for pvp and a caster suit for farming...omg i mean who woulda thought of using the best of both worlds to maximize ur game experience

[Kyron]

no wai !

[launcelot]

casters sacrafice defense for offense. They are powerful but have regen times and have to use mana/energy to attack unlike melee. They are a trophy sink and the ones that people see and then say all casters are OP are ones that have got their skills up to get r20 gems and several other skills 90+. Now how many of you have skills that high that are complaining about them?


Leave casters alone or go make one yourself and see how OP they are.

[Kyron]

Originally Posted by launcelot

casters sacrafice defense for offense. They are powerful but have regen times and have to use mana/energy to attack unlike melee. They are a trophy sink and the ones that people see and then say all casters are OP are ones that have got their skills up to get r20 gems and several other skills 90+. Now how many of you have skills that high that are complaining about them?


Leave casters alone or go make one yourself and see how OP they are.

as shown in signature

[Monu]

OMG!

Do you realy have that much (ex. from other players) or did you really get all that?

[thatperson]

nice kyron

[Hunters Bane]

Casters are OP. They can hit 3k+. Not many melees can crit/tri-hit/quad hit or w/e for 3k+ (i think) I see San saying that he only hits not even 3k in arena so he's bull****ting you all.



LIES AND SLANDER

i fought san's team yesterday and got hit with 3 gems in 5 seconds 6k hp was gone like that *cried irl*

can we have a duel wield shield option plz?