The end of TC farming?

Rayzor answered this whole dilemma months ago when he said "GET A JOB YOU BUMS".

Why not just get rid of TCs all together? Just set up being able to purchase upgrades/RT with a set amount of gold, with an option to buy gold with $. Cuts out the middle-man of N's having to get a TC from AH when they save up enough, the resellers will find some other way of scamming gold.

[Revanche]

Originally Posted by FastStang

Step 1 - Make un-soulbound tc's soulbound once bought off auction.
ip-bound?

Step 2 - Start selling cheap time cards again.

Problem solved

this SHOULD work. I bought 4 tcs yesterday: one 2 cure me of my N status, and then sold the other 3 on AH for 70k each...gone in 2 min. i got a respectable amount of gold with minimal effort, and plan on doing it again, maybe for lower prices. Why you may ask? Because rampant capitalism ir why the US ir trillions in debt: if we monitor ourselves, the prices never go up, and everyone can have a (NOD)life. Then the game, much like the country, could go on and prosper, instead of being run into the ground like a Tonka truck until the wheels snap off and becomes useless. If you agree, spend the time you would use to reply actually trying it out, NOD and everyone in it will thank you. Besides, if you get 2 much gold 2 soon, what then? You have what u need 2 reach cap sooner? The game isnt going anywhere, if you do the work, maybe the cap could raise b4 you hit it, and you have a constant goal to reach. You get to keep enjoying the game. Noobs get to enjoy the game because the prices stay reasonable. Jeff gets a constant(and larger) cash flow. We get 2 keep playing. Its a cycle, watch it roll.

[advent]

Problem isn't only tc gong up in price it is everything going up in price. In fact all the other items going up in price may be driving tc prices up. One solution I have heard is to cap the tc price, fair enough but if you cap tc price you should also cap all other items prices.

When I started tc sold for 100K but spirit trophies sold for 24g/k and combats for 26g/k. Now I see combats as high as 38g/k.

[advent]

In fact to follow up:

Lets cap spirits to 10g/k
combats to 12g/k

and all other items at 5% above store value
Example: No more swans being sold for 350,000 they would go for 56,000 and so on.

This way we could also eliminate those pesky players that just like to craft because they would never be able to make a profit

*said with sarcasm and jest* Would never want to eliminate crafters since I buy from them

[brow]

What everyone seems to be forgetting is the rather unreasonable cost of what you get for your real money purchases. Buying a TC, even at 120k+ for a month of standard time? Not so bad: you get an extra 30 hours of playtime out of that, 20 hours if you get premium. So we're looking at 30 hours for $5, that's about 16 cents an hour, not too bad right, or about 50 cents an hour with accel. But then you look at the price of purchasing a TC for an extra 6 (or 7 with grinder) hours of rested time. Add in accel on top of that and you are looking at 2-2.3 hours of playtime for $5.

Are you ****ing kidding me? Regardless of if it's you or someone else physically paying for the TC, you're paying OVER $2 AN HOUR for anything beyond your daily rested time given. Is Jeff really paying so much for server costs (or being so greedy) that anyone wanting to play over an hour a day on accel will cost that much?

Here's my thought. Add in some kind of upgrade option (via TCs, grinder, whatever) where extra rested time purchase doesn't cost you any more than the time you get from purchasing std/prem account. It seems to me that the majority of the TC purchasing with gold (partially to blame for the high TC prices, demand exceeds supply) is done by high level people who farm up gold and buy TCs to keep playing (or keep playing their alts, whatever).

Now I understand that if this was done with TCs, it would raise their value and the price would probably reflect it, and as such it may be a better option to do it a different way, or still cap the price somehow. But I guarantee if people like me and many others who just buy TCs to spend more time got more actual playable time, then we wouldn't need to buy so many TCs thus allowing prices to stay lower and give everyone a chance to be happy.

Grinder was originally put in game as a "buy the box" option so people could just continue to play all day long with some reward (even if it was halved). Accel and buying RT with TCs made grinder defunct until the 7 hours/travel mode was added, but even so you can't really consider it like a 'box purchase' any longer. If you spend real money on all upgrades from the start you are looking at well over $300, nearly a year of any other MMO. Then you have to spend > $2 an hour per char to continue on at a normal rate.

Jeff, give us some kind of break here! I'm sure with mine or others' suggestions you can find a way to make just as much money but give people more time and enjoyment without driving them away.

[zenga]

Very well said brow.

In addition to that: if a certain paypal account has done a certain amount of transactions, it could be flagged as safe/trusted. And TC's bought with that paypal account could be non-sb.

For example: if A buys premium, accel and 10 SB tc's with his paypal account. 3 weeks later he buys another 5 sb tc's, then it seems to me that his paypal can be considered safe. His next TC purchases through that paypal account should no longer be SB.

As many people have access to paypal, this will bring more TC's on the market and still prevent people from scamming.

[Tucco the Rat]

Interesting…. The TC saga continues. How a seemingly benign thing called a Time Card, that costs only $5, could be the object of so much attention (grief and anger and gnashing of teeth) is amazing. To read some of the comments you would think Time Cards were evil personified. I suppose for those who despise capitalism, are jealous because they are cheap or poor, want things given to them without working for it, or just don’t like them because they don’t suit their idea of how a time card should work or cost, it is understandable.

Are time cards the bane of Nodiatis? Are they only for the pleasure of the rich and powerful that can buy them and then lord it over all the less fortunate? Are PhD economists the only people who can divulge their proper workings? Is it all just a dirty scheme by a greedy game developer to fleece the gaming public?

My first instinct is to say who cares. It is a game. As has been said before, you don’t like it, leave, or better yet, develop your own and design a perfect gaming world with a perfect economy and if you so desire you can remove every bit of profit motive those dirty/evil free marketers have by fixing the price (or removing prices entirely) on everything. Good luck with that. You can also work to change things with Nod and try to implement all manner of price controls to please…. hmmm whom exactly are you trying to please? Everybody or just yourself? Yeah see, that’s the problem, you can’t please everybody.

Don’t get me wrong, making suggestions to improve game play is a good thing, but it looks to me that not everybody thinks time cards, or the reselling of time cards regardless of how much they go for, is a bad thing. Ultimately, the market responds to personal behaviors and choices.

I find it interesting that not much is said about Bliss “ruining” the economy. It is after all free gold, and doesn’t that drive up the price of goods? Also don’t see too many people complaining about the fact they can play this game for FREE! Yes, there are limitations on what you can do, but c’mon, it’s still an option and the game developers are under no obligation to provide a free ride. In a purely capitalistic model it would be no pay-no play. But then that is the hook for the fish isn’t it… Ah those evil capitalists, they create this online form of crack to enthrall the masses.

Well I for one am ok with that and will continue to buy time cards and sell them at close to the market rate whatever that happens to be since I never have a problem selling them. That’s how the market works boys and girls. Oh, and just so you know, I have been to known to give away time cards (amongst other things) as I understand the concept of charity and rewarding those I consider deserving. Should I be stopped from doing that as well, doesn't that have an impact on the market to? Drive on, and I think I sense another bliss coming on...

[Revanche]

letting spambots touch your thread causes BUMPS

[Relic]

Originally Posted by brow

Jeff, give us some kind of break here! I'm sure with mine or others' suggestions you can find a way to make just as much money but give people more time and enjoyment without driving them away.

Agreed, and well said.

[advent]

Zenga, Like your suggestion on paypal and making second or third purchases using this method non-soulbound

[Treloar]

The simplest and easiest means I could see of of capping the price of TC's would be to make them a store item unique to one town (like burdinia) for a nominated price (say 90k), so that not unlike gates or recalls which are a infrequent supply TC's would sometimes be available and sometimes not.

This means TC's would be capped in price.

People (higher level players) can go to Burdinia and get TC's to auction in Castille for up to 10k profit, which would still make a TC within the buying range of an N or soon to be N.

Originally Posted by Treloar

The simplest and easiest means I could see of of capping the price of TC's would be to make them a store item unique to one town (like burdinia) for a nominated price (say 90k), so that not unlike gates or recalls which are a infrequent supply TC's would sometimes be available and sometimes not.

This means TC's would be capped in price.

People (higher level players) can go to Burdinia and get TC's to auction in Castille for up to 10k profit, which would still make a TC within the buying range of an N or soon to be N.

I highly doubt such a thing would even be considered by Jeff.

But, a better solution would be 500 per in Slevisk and 500 per day in Roggork.

People who buy these could either use them for themselves, or transport them to T2 or T1 to sell.

Why 500? Because, it has to be a limited amount or else it would be crazy.

500 may sound like a lot, but if you consider the amount of high levels in Roggork and the amount able to get to Slevisk, then no it doesn't sound as much of a supply.

Originally Posted by Tucco the Rat

Interesting…. The TC saga continues. How a seemingly benign thing called a Time Card, that costs only $5, could be the object of so much attention (grief and anger and gnashing of teeth) is amazing. To read some of the comments you would think Time Cards were evil personified. I suppose for those who despise capitalism, are jealous because they are cheap or poor, want things given to them without working for it, or just don’t like them because they don’t suit their idea of how a time card should work or cost, it is understandable.

Are time cards the bane of Nodiatis? Are they only for the pleasure of the rich and powerful that can buy them and then lord it over all the less fortunate? Are PhD economists the only people who can divulge their proper workings? Is it all just a dirty scheme by a greedy game developer to fleece the gaming public?

My first instinct is to say who cares. It is a game. As has been said before, you don’t like it, leave, or better yet, develop your own and design a perfect gaming world with a perfect economy and if you so desire you can remove every bit of profit motive those dirty/evil free marketers have by fixing the price (or removing prices entirely) on everything. Good luck with that. You can also work to change things with Nod and try to implement all manner of price controls to please…. hmmm whom exactly are you trying to please? Everybody or just yourself? Yeah see, that’s the problem, you can’t please everybody.

Don’t get me wrong, making suggestions to improve game play is a good thing, but it looks to me that not everybody thinks time cards, or the reselling of time cards regardless of how much they go for, is a bad thing. Ultimately, the market responds to personal behaviors and choices.

I find it interesting that not much is said about Bliss “ruining” the economy. It is after all free gold, and doesn’t that drive up the price of goods? Also don’t see too many people complaining about the fact they can play this game for FREE! Yes, there are limitations on what you can do, but c’mon, it’s still an option and the game developers are under no obligation to provide a free ride. In a purely capitalistic model it would be no pay-no play. But then that is the hook for the fish isn’t it… Ah those evil capitalists, they create this online form of crack to enthrall the masses.

Well I for one am ok with that and will continue to buy time cards and sell them at close to the market rate whatever that happens to be since I never have a problem selling them. That’s how the market works boys and girls. Oh, and just so you know, I have been to known to give away time cards (amongst other things) as I understand the concept of charity and rewarding those I consider deserving. Should I be stopped from doing that as well, doesn't that have an impact on the market to? Drive on, and I think I sense another bliss coming on...

Can someone clean up this spam bot?

Originally Posted by GMizzle

Why not just get rid of TCs all together? Just set up being able to purchase upgrades/RT with a set amount of gold, with an option to buy gold with $. Cuts out the middle-man of N's having to get a TC from AH when they save up enough, the resellers will find some other way of scamming gold.

GREAT SUGGESTION!! Jeff please implement it.

I vote making tcs bought of AH or traded to be soulbound, then you can unsb 1 a week.

It'll make us all trade for items in gold currency instead of in TCs.

Right now I buy tc's as currency more than I do to burn them.

I think one of the main problems is that TCs have become required currency for many purchases.

Also, I prefer to trade in TCs because I avoid all taxes, making us trade in gold would be another gold sink.

To those of you who propose a price cap on TC's - this would not be a good thing, then it would only be people who had friends willing to sell them TCs, new players would be screwed again.

Think of it like Diablo 2.... People can only equip 2 SoJs per character but they became currency in the game, so what happened? People stockpiled them 160 on each character to trade for other items they liked. Gold is completely and utterly useless. I know I'm guilty of stockpiling, and I know many others that are too. We're hoarding them just incase the price goes up - which it will - and we'll make gold by holding TCs where as the value of our gold, if we left it as it, would become much less in the future as more is farmed.

Bottom line - Make gold the main currency in the game

Originally Posted by Revanch

this SHOULD work. I bought 4 tcs yesterday: one 2 cure me of my N status, and then sold the other 3 on AH for 70k each...gone in 2 min. i got a respectable amount of gold with minimal effort, and plan on doing it again, maybe for lower prices. Why you may ask? Because rampant capitalism ir why the US ir trillions in debt: if we monitor ourselves, the prices never go up, and everyone can have a (NOD)life. Then the game, much like the country, could go on and prosper, instead of being run into the ground like a Tonka truck until the wheels snap off and becomes useless. If you agree, spend the time you would use to reply actually trying it out, NOD and everyone in it will thank you. Besides, if you get 2 much gold 2 soon, what then? You have what u need 2 reach cap sooner? The game isnt going anywhere, if you do the work, maybe the cap could raise b4 you hit it, and you have a constant goal to reach. You get to keep enjoying the game. Noobs get to enjoy the game because the prices stay reasonable. Jeff gets a constant(and larger) cash flow. We get 2 keep playing. Its a cycle, watch it roll.

i love u man, well said

[flipynifty]

*gnashes teeth*

Originally Posted by Tucco the Rat

Are time cards the bane of Nodiatis?

Nah, timecards are the cocaine of Nodiatis and certain players have been taking them so long that they're hooked :P

I`d just like to notice that most of the solutions given here either simply wont work (putting price cap on TCs means a lot of people will still want to buy them, but even less than now would sell, means AH would prolly have no TCs at all most of the time), or wont change situation much (SBing TCs bought from AH etc).

The only reason why TCs prices are going up so much is simple no-brainer economy law: too high interest in them, compared to the number of TC on the market. Lets face it: there are only two solutions really that will work:
1. Raise the number of TCs on the market by lowering their RL price. For the same amount of cash people could buy more TCs, sell more, prices drop. Obviously chances of that happening are near zero.
2. Lower the demand - raise the amount of RT one TC gives, number of days/weeks of standard/premium account. People would need less TCs, the amount of them on the market stays the same - prices drop. Chances of that happening? Small, if not zero.


Just my few thoughts on the situation, thanks for reading.

Deggial