Crush Update

What's the general crusher proc again? Stun? Honestly I like stuns. They're quite handy. Prevent the enemy from attacking or casting for a moment. Using the 59 epic, 25% chance of 1 second stun. 25% is not much - but with DW, the effect comes to 43.75% chance per attack. No, it's not 50 - the chance of it working is determined by how often it doesn't happen. Statistics.

But still, 43% is pretty good. While I love the 52 Epic Slasher's proc, it has a lower percentage of happening. Yes, it lasts longer. But with the crushers, the delay is low enough that since one in every two or three times you swing the effect procs, and each swing is about 3 seconds apart due to added delay from DW, 10% of the battle is spent with the enemy stunned.

This would be a huge bonus against ANY class or weapon spec. Archers causing problems? Stun 'em. Casters going gem crazy all over you? Stun 'em. Slashers making you bleed to death? Stun 'em. In a group, three chars each dual wielding these crushers could theoretically keep a target stunlocked for about 30-50% of a fight! WITHOUT stun gems!

Klip, love ya bro, but honestly... crush is damn good.

Originally Posted by sherman

You forgot not everyone can use the high level greys to make the proc useless.

Also, crushers have the higher max damage IIRC.

They get the bigger boost.

Might be why they are used more.

Im not here to argue which type is stronger.

Originally Posted by klippi

Im not here to argue which type is stronger.

Obviously you are, you want crushers to get a buff.

im with you on this one klippi, one good crush weapon between 22 and 35 would be great (a non epic pl0x).

[zenga]

The pro tips at the beginning of the game + several posts in this forum from jeff say: "it's advised to level different weapon types."

The way I level up a crushing warrior now is simple:
0-20 = epic 9 bow
20-36 = zc's
36-48 = 42 piercers
48-56 = 52 slashers
-> cap 59 crushers
once at cap switch to 71s on my way to 80 crushers. I still find that the fastest and most effective route.

Originally Posted by zenga

The pro tips at the beginning of the game + several posts in this forum from jeff say: "it's advised to level different weapon types."

The way I level up a crushing warrior now is simple:
0-20 = epic 9 bow
20-36 = zc's
36-48 = 42 piercers
48-56 = 52 slashers
-> cap 59 crushers
once at cap switch to 71s on my way to 80 crushers. I still find that the fastest and most effective route.

Lol im on a tight tight budget. but statistically speaking, 81 slashers are the best out there atm.

@sherman. No i dont want a buff. just more DW weps available... Its just a huge jump 22 to 35. even the 2h's are catching up and thats just disgraceful.

Originally Posted by Ehlmaris

What's the general crusher proc again? Stun? Honestly I like stuns. They're quite handy. Prevent the enemy from attacking or casting for a moment. Using the 59 epic, 25% chance of 1 second stun. 25% is not much - but with DW, the effect comes to 43.75% chance per attack. No, it's not 50 - the chance of it working is determined by how often it doesn't happen. Statistics.

But still, 43% is pretty good. While I love the 52 Epic Slasher's proc, it has a lower percentage of happening. Yes, it lasts longer. But with the crushers, the delay is low enough that since one in every two or three times you swing the effect procs, and each swing is about 3 seconds apart due to added delay from DW, 10% of the battle is spent with the enemy stunned.

This would be a huge bonus against ANY class or weapon spec. Archers causing problems? Stun 'em. Casters going gem crazy all over you? Stun 'em. Slashers making you bleed to death? Stun 'em. In a group, three chars each dual wielding these crushers could theoretically keep a target stunlocked for about 30-50% of a fight! WITHOUT stun gems!

Klip, love ya bro, but honestly... crush is damn good.

I understand where your coming from but i didnt intend this discussion to be about which is stronger. I just want more 1h weps available. and out epics are really really limited.. 1 usable imo althought the 22 epic crush owns 22 DW.

Originally Posted by Jiraiya

im with you on this one klippi, one good crush weapon between 22 and 35 would be great (a non epic pl0x).

ty for getting the point.

On all the misunderstanding of your intention Klip: It's probably because you're saying one weapon class needs more viable choices in its range of items because another class is stronger.

TO make a more accurate com*****on... 1h slashers are at 15, 28, 52. That's a difference of 13 levels, then 24. For 1h pierce, it's 12, 42, 64. Differences of 30 and 22 levels. Crush, as stated previously, has a 22 and a 35 epic, right? None on AH right now so cannot verify. But that is a difference of 13, exact same as slash. Then 59 crush, difference of 24... again, same difference in levels as slash.

I think what you're saying is that your selection is limited and there's a long time between upgrades. If this is true, then it's 1H Pierce that needs a new weapon most. That 12 to 42 jump is HUGE. Unless I'm totally missing an epic here...

Originally Posted by zenga

The pro tips at the beginning of the game + several posts in this forum from jeff say: "it's advised to level different weapon types."

The way I level up a crushing warrior now is simple:
0-20 = epic 9 bow
20-36 = zc's
36-48 = 42 piercers
48-56 = 52 slashers
-> cap 59 crushers
once at cap switch to 71s on my way to 80 crushers. I still find that the fastest and most effective route.

EpicEpicEpicEpicEpicEpicEpic ..... some guys need non-epic weapons

Originally Posted by Ehlmaris

On all the misunderstanding of your intention Klip: It's probably because you're saying one weapon class needs more viable choices in its range of items because another class is stronger.

TO make a more accurate com*****on... 1h slashers are at 15, 28, 52. That's a difference of 13 levels, then 24. For 1h pierce, it's 12, 42, 64. Differences of 30 and 22 levels. Crush, as stated previously, has a 22 and a 35 epic, right? None on AH right now so cannot verify. But that is a difference of 13, exact same as slash. Then 59 crush, difference of 24... again, same difference in levels as slash.

I think what you're saying is that your selection is limited and there's a long time between upgrades. If this is true, then it's 1H Pierce that needs a new weapon most. That 12 to 42 jump is HUGE. Unless I'm totally missing an epic here...

I see your point but with pierce, few ever pursue this build as their only wep type. They are often archers who have high dex and use it for its enchant potential.

If they posses pierce only, then yes, i must also agree that they have it hard too.

the slash leap from 15 to 28 is a 13 gap but a 22 to 35 is more difficult.


edit: and yeah, after reading about my first post too, i would have been misled too.

Klippi I have to say the protips say to train more then one weapon skill just for this situation... even just counting single handed crush there are more of them then there are whips ... to come out and say more crush weapons are needed is a little greedy in my opinion there are other weapon types who have much less choices then crushers and it is advised to train more then one weapon type or you may have to wait long periods between weapon upgrades. Sorry but I don't agree with you that more crushers are needed. If anything I would have to say that it is staves, whips and piercing weapons that need expansion.

lol but im a pure crusher. no dex at all. slash and pierce is a no go for me.

I know that is a tip but i don't think that's a very good one. It takes enormous amounts of trophy xp and i train on mobs a little above my level. hence, i must also train my weaponry types a little above my level with xp penalties. I dont have much gold to spend and im saving for grinder.


Whips and staves are a different story though i must agree that their epics are few in numbers as well. Look at it this way..

slash has 4 usable epics
pierce 3
staves 3
whips 3
archery 6 *7 if you include 88s
crush 1


my point being, there arent enough crush weps to keep them updated. the other wep types have many at least 3 usable epics. there is only 1 in crush.

Originally Posted by klippi

the slash leap from 15 to 28 is a 13 gap but a 22 to 35 is more difficult.

I fail to see how 22 to 35 is more difficult than 15 to 28. I understand that it takes more experience per skill at higher levels, but also, you'll be fighting stronger mobs as you progress.

15 to 28 is particularly difficult because when you hit 20, there's all those other skills that unlock. Players have to take time away from training everything else to get those new skills caught up. No skills unlock between 22 and 35. It is easier to get up to 35 at that point in order to use the better weapon because you A) likely already have the newest skills caught up by the time you start thinking about upgrading, and B) will kill mobs faster because, as previously stated, new skills will likely be caught up.

The skill requirement is the only thing that makes a gap between the weapons, from what I can see of your arguments here. I've been fighting the same mobs for about two weeks now just getting class spec and stat enhancement, as well as the new weaponry and archery skills, up on my alts who just hit 20. I doubt I'll have to spend this long in a single area until one of my chars hits 40.

Originally Posted by Ehlmaris

I fail to see how 22 to 35 is more difficult than 15 to 28. I understand that it takes more experience per skill at higher levels, but also, you'll be fighting stronger mobs as you progress.

15 to 28 is particularly difficult because when you hit 20, there's all those other skills that unlock. Players have to take time away from training everything else to get those new skills caught up. No skills unlock between 22 and 35. It is easier to get up to 35 at that point in order to use the better weapon because you A) likely already have the newest skills caught up by the time you start thinking about upgrading, and B) will kill mobs faster because, as previously stated, new skills will likely be caught up.

The skill requirement is the only thing that makes a gap between the weapons, from what I can see of your arguments here. I've been fighting the same mobs for about two weeks now just getting class spec and stat enhancement, as well as the new weaponry and archery skills, up on my alts who just hit 20. I doubt I'll have to spend this long in a single area until one of my chars hits 40.

even so, crushers arent as updated as all the other weapon disciples. whips and staves have a smaller wep count but they are less dependent on their weapons for weps. Crushers are especially dependent so thats why its important for them to have at updated weps. 1 DW epic is unacceptable for me personally. slash has epics on every field range and crush has but a 59.

Arent crushers supposed to be prized for their strength? I see that replaced by slashers. Not only becuase of the anti stun gem but also because of the slice effect that when leveled to lv 100, gives .35(60) or 21damage/ x delay.

Edit: a DWable epic above 59 would be nice..

Originally Posted by klippi

even so, crushers arent as updated as all the other weapon disciples. whips and staves have a smaller wep count but they are less dependent on their weapons for weps. Crushers are especially dependent so thats why its important for them to have at updated weps. 1 DW epic is unacceptable for me personally. slash has epics on every field range and crush has but a 59.

Arent crushers supposed to be prized for their strength? I see that replaced by slashers. Not only becuase of the anti stun gem but also because of the slice effect that when leveled to lv 100, gives .35(60) or 21damage/ x delay.

Edit: a DWable epic above 59 would be nice..

Once again, you go into slashing being the strongest.

However, casters and BMs are not actively dependent on their weapons for DPS, but passively. Casters rely on using a staff to gain skill bonuses that seriously help them out. While BMs use whips to gain access to skills that seriously help them out, but both still provide basic DPS that can be helpful. Just look at Relic, level 70, dual wielding whips and using pets even though he is a DK.

There may be a gap in crushing weapons, but that doesn't make them weak.

IIRC, this is the only thread I have seen complaining about the number of crushing weapons.

This leads me to believe that everyone else got along fine with the number of them.

[Hunters Bane]

Originally Posted by Ehlmaris

On all the misunderstanding of your intention Klip: It's probably because you're saying one weapon class needs more viable choices in its range of items because another class is stronger.

TO make a more accurate com*****on... 1h slashers are at 15, 28, 52. That's a difference of 13 levels, then 24. For 1h pierce, it's 12, 42, 64. Differences of 30 and 22 levels. Crush, as stated previously, has a 22 and a 35 epic, right? None on AH right now so cannot verify. But that is a difference of 13, exact same as slash. Then 59 crush, difference of 24... again, same difference in levels as slash.

imo 1h slashers are at 15, 28, 29(maybe...if you can't get 28), 42, 54.
because the 52 suck. The proc kills me faster than the weapons.

No there is no 35 epic crush, 22 2H then 59 1H are the epic crushers.

[Hunters Bane]

Originally Posted by Ehlmaris

I fail to see how 22 to 35 is more difficult than 15 to 28. I understand that it takes more experience per skill at higher levels, but also, you'll be fighting stronger mobs as you progress.

15 to 28 is particularly difficult because when you hit 20, there's all those other skills that unlock. Players have to take time away from training everything else to get those new skills caught up. blah blah blah

from active volcano - snow hills/md4 (mob levels 24 - 35/36) all you have are 75% sprirt zones. Thats difficult when trying to keep all yer skill n **** equal to your level. I'm still lagging in alot of skills like dual parry/crush spec/crush/slash spec/impedance/etc

[Hunters Bane]

Originally Posted by klippi

thats the ONLY time crushers shine. then they are done in by the 81 slashers at lv 70. kinda stupid really.

edit: slash spec raises slash minimum damage too so 81 slashers are especially deadly. by the numbers, crusher's are /pwnt.

same with the bows... they got 78 epic bow which also beats the 59 crushers.. really sad and ONLY 1 OWNAGE EPIC!! the 71s a disgrace


I'm not asking for a buff. just want MORE crush weps.

Whats the DPS of the 80 crushers?
Btw, Iceberg crusher in crella pwns Godspeed crusher.

[Hunters Bane]

Originally Posted by sherman

Obviously you are, you want crushers to get a buff.

He wants more crusher weapons.

An epic 30 something crusher sounds good imo