Fruitless resouce skills. Enchanting > all

[Faithfulservant]

Ever wondered who buys your resources?What are they being used for?
Are you concerned that all you should be doing is fighting+keeping up to date with enchants?

You should.

As it stands now,the market has random resources flying around,of which,
a vast majority is being fed into the enchanting stones.Players love having
good stat bonuses,and no one can blame them for this desire - but what happens to resources that players do not wish to invest into enchanting stones?

Simple answer - they just rot on the auction house,until some other enchanter or person seeking enchants buys them.

Dyes,fish scales,oils,leathers.All resources are nothing more than enchanting ingredients....why are Crafting skills useless?

Reason 1 - If it's not an epic item,it's not worth making. Even items that have "rare" item description,their resin costs are always higher than their
sell-back-to-store value.Likewise, even if the item being built is worth more than resell value,let's say for example a 36/45/75 armor piece,even still,the resin cost alone ruins the value of producing.

Reason 2 - Crafting skills require a large amount of production in order to raise the skills. However, players can just use passive without ever laying a finger. Okay. Now resource skills? Using normal RT is reasonable way to level a resource skill,especially in between battles. Powerleveling with acceleration upgrade consumes vast amount of RT.

In short,you need to invest large amounts of rested time to obtain resource skill level ups,or buy your own resources. Either way,someone out there,either you,or Bob next door neighbor,has to do it.

*Yes grinder mode is possible, but most do not play for 10 hours via grinder just to get 1/2 exp of normal in a resource skill*

Resources cost someone out there valuable rested time.Then,with the high resin cost,the resources are virtually useless,since they do not lower cost in any way of the item being built.


---In short : Why are there no items,worth building other than epics?

Resources take time,or money,or both.
Crafting skills take passive or RT to increase.
Crafting is useless for non-epics due to resin costs.

My suggestion is to scrap the resins or replace with a possible-resource skill item other than resin. You shouldn't have to pay if you can get all resources by yourself.


***My challenge to those that have spent the time to read this below***

Think something is misleading on this board?Prove me wrong!
Find me,as many items that you can,via consumeable recipes,post them
as a screenshot in your post that have resin costs low enough,and player
prices high enough,that it's worth building.
...Seriously,find some item,any type (armor/wep/anything), that is a NON epic and pays for itself. Crafting level doesn't matter. Resource +resin prices do.

[Faithfulservant]

Counterarguement

[Argument 1]

"But hey,if it's 0gp to produce an item,that will introduce gold into market without a money sink!"

True,and untrue. Resources themselves are worthless,enchanting stones aren't. Decent enchant stones require resources,so in return,resources gain value.
--The resources that are used in crafting are high tier ones,that could go into high tier enchant stones. Either way,by consuming them into crafting,you are displacing gold one way or the other.
Likewise,it's not as simple as mass producing item every few seconds.High tier resources take multiple battles,and minutes to hours to locate.
--The cash brought in will not be large compared to other means (drops/epic drops).

My question is, how is adding another item going to help this? From my experience, adding a new item only creates a new gold sink. Players will determine its value in the AH, and if it is put high enough, it could be months before people try to lower the value to get rid of it.

My suggestion is this, make resins and other items more available, as drops.

Resins won't count towards epic drops, it would be like silk drops.

Also Jeff, make the tiers your level allows you use, appear more often to make these higher tiered items more readily available as well, and reduce price.

[Faithfulservant]

My question is, how is adding another item going to help this? From my experience, adding a new item only creates a new gold sink. Players will determine its value in the AH, and if it is put high enough, it could be months before people try to lower the value to get rid of it.

My suggestion is this, make resins and other items more available, as drops

I agree on the drops part,but it won't be frequent enough or players would be tempted to simple convert into trophies,if it's just resin drops,rather than an altogether new item to replace resin.

For example,this is what it should not be:

Fight battle,gather resource.Place resource into enchant stone or ah it.

What it should be more of:

Fight battle,gather enough of one resource.Later gather different resources.Produce an item,sell to store or sell off to players and make profit either way.

Also it doesn't have to be a money sink.It should be something that is possible to obtain multiple times in an hour just like any resource skill.

Maybe a chance to collect more than one item while gathering?

[Faithfulservant]

How would that help...? You'd end up with more resources for just enchanting...

Resin cost would still exist,and defeat crafting.

Sorry wasn't thinking, I am a little off today.

The true crafters would use the resins as a free chance to craft.

A new item might help if implemented the way you say, this is all on paper, we would have to see if it would play out in the real world the way we want.

Nice suggestion though, I know how bad you crafters have it.

[Faithfulservant]

Sorry wasn't thinking, I am a little off today.

The true crafters would use the resins as a free chance to craft.

A new item might help if implemented the way you say, this is all on paper, we would have to see if it would play out in the real world the way we want.

Nice suggestion though, I know how bad you crafters have it.

Thank you,and you're fine.I don't know if I worded anything off...lol

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Thank you,and you're fine.I don't know if I worded anything off...lol

You didn't, I am just a little tired.

[Faithfulservant]

I'm also interested in seeing what Music and Richp think,since they are two of the main crafters out there.

[Sapreaver]

I agree resins are too expensive but maybe potion making will involve making resins from sinews ^.^

[Faithfulservant]

I agree resins are too expensive but maybe potion making will involve making resins from sinews ^.^

That definitely would be a possible solution.

I keep a spreadsheet with the going rate of resources and its typically 20g per tier except for things like oils and leather which are a little higher. Everyone once in a while you can catch an item much lower then the standard price but not always. definitely not enough to craft a particular item.

What people dont realize is these items hold a value wether or not you are using them for crafting or for selling individually...if it takes X amount of these and X amount of those to craft Item A. that item you are crafting also has a market value but if that item doesnt yield more then the profit you could gain from selling the items by themself then there is no reason to craft the original item in the first place. By saying you can gather all the resouces yourself and just come out the pocket in resins is BS. Those items you are gathering hold a value no matter where they came from.

For example I was going to craft a 36 rare chest but after plugging in the #'s I would be losing gold.

the store cost is 42590 for the 36 chestplate, here are the ingredients needed to make it with current ah prices. (if I were to buy all the items needed in ah)

1 spiderfruit dye tier 12 6000g
1 imperial cloth tier 12 6000g
2 mudflapper scales tier 12 6000g (if you are lucky)
25 flounder scales 250g
2 aquamarine ingots 22000g
25 citrine ignots 500g
9 heaven harbor resin 22500g
17 tethered resin 935g

Total cost is $64,185.
21595g more then its worth. Most people won't pay store price for something when they can just buy it themselves. You go into the ah for bargains...not store prices.

So lets say a good sell price is 35000g for the 36 chestpiece, the new total is 29185g, thats the amount you are over budget on making this item. Even if you can gather all the resouces needed by yourself without having to buy anything at all in ah, dont you think it would be better to just sell the resources individually at ah prices. Why go through all the trouble of making the chestpiece? just sell your resouces individually...

It would be very difficult to make up nearly 30k in resources to make this worth while. Upcrafting only works on the lower tiers. Most tier 8 and above items are listing in ah much less then it would cost to upcraft all the way from tier 1. say you caught a deal on the aqua ignots. 5k each instead, that is only 12k. tier 12 scales are not easy to find even at 3k each. and try to find a tier 12 dye for cheap in ah...not likely to happen. If I made a tier 12 ignot I would rather sell it in ah then use it on the chestpice, same with the scales or dyes.

one of the main reasons epics can yield a profit is because of the epic dusts. Sometimes you can catch a good deal on dusts which can vastly change the amount of profit you can make. The reason you see most epic dusts waste away in the ah is because the crafters know if they pay the crazy prices listed there is no way they can ever make any profit from it.

Would eliminating resins help reduce crafting costs? yes definitely
enough to make it more profitable? on some items yes but not all
Would substiting the resins for another resource or two work? yes and no. depends on how many and of what resouces. If the value of the items you are replacing the resins with hold the same value as the resins then it's pointless.
Am I looking to make millons from crafting? No, not at all. I would like to see the cost of crafting something like rares less then the actual store value. I like to make items available (espeically epics) 24-7 or close to it. My prices are based on crafting cost and how many are in the market, leaving a few thousand gold behind for my time.

Personally I dont know how it can be fixed...since the ah prices are ran by us its difficult to say what would make crafting more profitable or worth even trying at all. crafting items that require goods that don't hold much of a value in the ah may be the way to go. Expect to see a lot more arm and legs crafted them very much of anything else.

[Faithfulservant]

Thank you for your feedback richp,I agree with just about every point you made.
This one stands out the most to me:

Expect to see a lot more arm and legs crafted them very much of anything else.

Especially breastplates and helmets.Almost worthless even in epic form,to craft.

Overall,there are useless rares,uncommon,epic helms,epic breastplates.
What exactly is left to craft other than sleeves and legs (epic both) ?

[Faithfulservant]

Bump

[zoidberginc]

i agree with this new crafting idea a new item that would drop would bring me into the crafting world myself. i havent tried to craft anything just because the price is too expensive.
this new alternative would allow this to be easier and doable for non-crafters....
in the end would this lower the price of rare items?
would this make the ah flooded with some items that are worth more? (ive seen the 20 bc's in the ah at once too) all in all a good idea faith

Just a quick question, since I'm completely new to the whole crafting thing. These recipes are constant? That is, the same recipe applied always produces exactly the same thing? No randomness or uniqueness deriving from the crafter or other factors?

Originally Posted by Grrrmle

Just a quick question, since I'm completely new to the whole crafting thing. These recipes are constant? That is, the same recipe applied always produces exactly the same thing? No randomness or uniqueness deriving from the crafter or other factors?

Yes they are constant. Another similarity is the same type of item but different tier will have a recipe with the same type of resources needed just different tiers.

example: breastplates are 2 tiers of scales, 2 tiers of ignots, and 2 tiers of resins.

Originally Posted by richp

Yes they are constant. Another similarity is the same type of item but different tier will have a recipe with the same type of resources needed just different tiers.

example: breastplates are 2 tiers of scales, 2 tiers of ignots, and 2 tiers of resins.

Hmmm. So how about introducing a new class of items, uniques?

A crafted item could have attributes not found in storebought items, derived from the crafter himself. For example:

Att. 1 - likelyhood that the enemy will never use spells against you.
Att. 2 - tap an amount of the opponent's hitpoints and transfer to yourself.

And so on.

The number of possible attributes can be as large as you want, and be picked by a matrix derived from the crafter's profile, including the constantly changing data.

[Faithfulservant]

Yes they are constant. Another similarity is the same type of item but different tier will have a recipe with the same type of resources needed just different tiers.

example: breastplates are 2 tiers of scales, 2 tiers of ignots, and 2 tiers of resins

Yep what he said

Hmmm. So how about introducing a new class of items, uniques?

That would be a very good idea,since afterall,some items will never
E.g. countless shields,countless uncommon leggings,helmets - be produced.All of these items,in non-epic forms are virtually being flooded in the market.They are identical in every sense.

Why would us crafters create items that are virtually worthless,when it costs us cashjust to produce them?There is no incentive for creating these vast,generic,identically useless uncommons other than exp. This exp is so little,and so costly to obtain,that only fools would do anything other than leave armorcrafting on passive.

Either give crafted items some sort of unique effects or reduce their costs to zero to produce,so that those of us who can fetch our own supplies should be rewarded,not penalized for our efforts.