ok....hope casters r finally happy now

no, it was just my friendly way of telling him he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Originally Posted by Smashbros

i disagree.

i have a lvl 5 archer, who has lvled archery to lvl 11. he crits for over 77 damage at lvl 5.

my caster wasnt hitting that with a crit till i used the lvl 30 staff. or with magic (dd gems) till i was using rank 5-6 with a rank 4 flare up aura.

Archers have a class bonus to max damage.

Vamps have a class bonus to healing.

You're dealing higher damage because of your class bonus.

I have to use DoTs(or other gems) to aid my DPS to keep me somewhat up to par.

I will say this, early on your class bonus isn't worth crap though, because on a second look, I was dealing an average of 70 damage, with magic at 20 and all points in INT and CNC.

Originally Posted by Qiana

lol...yea...good show. awwww, poor casters...a lil sarcasm, and the lil "grow up" birdies come out to sing. Ive been reading thread after thread for many months about "poor casters"...well now casters have gotten several very helpful new tricks, and i just hope that's enuff to shut the buzz up for a bit. But plz, if i offend ur delicate sensibilities, continue to complain about how horrible life as a caster is (and powaqa, i have made many many chars, most over lvl 20 or thirty...usually just to explore the functions and functional build needs of each type...3 were casters. But, if it helps u to assume im just someone who doesnt have a working knowledge of -most- aspects of char building go right ahead...ill go watch a good movie.)

umm...well they are updates to casters, however epic gems are nigh impossible to come by, so they aren't exactly useful atm, still leaving casters weaker, and definately red dd gems smoke black dd gems by far, if ur casting, stick to reds over blacks.

and as far as casters go, even at lvl 20, dw'ers are still gonna kick ur arse, get over it

aside from this being an old, dead thread...
black gems are good because a) they are way cheaper, and b) they take pst which is melee, instead of mst from an already overstretched magic.

i dun pay attn to how old a topic is, but as a warlock, i keep my melee stat lowish and my magic stat high, so with a few mana cants, and a few high-hitting red gems, my battles take me down to 1/2 of my mana bar

you're around level 20, right? once you get into higher gems, they start to cost a lot a lot. specifically, around 40+ the cost starts to really shoot up. plus if you want max effect, you'll want around 300 int, 200 cnc, which is more or less +300 skills, or +100 levels of magic, leaving nothing for mst. so you either go enchant-heavy on the mst, or even out your pouch with something that eats pst as well. as a warlock, that's easy, since you get bonus from blacks as well. but for a necro for example, it might be easiest just to go all black gems, maybe throwing in a few poisons to eat the mana too.

Originally Posted by Tapobu

you're around level 20, right? once you get into higher gems, they start to cost a lot a lot. specifically, around 40+ the cost starts to really shoot up. plus if you want max effect, you'll want around 300 int, 200 cnc, which is more or less +300 skills, or +100 levels of magic, leaving nothing for mst. so you either go enchant-heavy on the mst, or even out your pouch with something that eats pst as well. as a warlock, that's easy, since you get bonus from blacks as well. but for a necro for example, it might be easiest just to go all black gems, maybe throwing in a few poisons to eat the mana too.

You won't need many points in MST or PST if you use a staff and put tons of exp into Mana Vault and Everence to increase your max Mana and Energy, respectively.

Also, increasing your level if Staves and Mana conservation reduces energy and mana requirements for casiting, respectively.

That leaves more points for customization of other stats. However, you can still put points into MST and PST if you want an even larger pool of Mana and Energy.

Originally Posted by sherman

You won't need many points in MST or PST if you use a staff and put tons of exp into Mana Vault and Everence to increase your max Mana and Energy, respectively.

Also, increasing your level if Staves and Mana conservation reduces energy and mana requirements for casiting, respectively.

That leaves more points for customization of other stats. However, you can still put points into MST and PST if you want an even larger pool of Mana and Energy.

guess that pretty much sums it up =)

Edit* i noticed i got de-repped for posting on this topic 2 months after it came out SORRY, i dont always go thru the forums on a daily basis, thta takes too much time up, so apologies if u dun like it, but i could either add on to this thread, or start an entirely new one and probably be referred back to this one

'not many' still means at least 200 or 250. because after all, you will not have your +mana skills at max instantly. if you're going all red, you will need a LOT of mst. if you don't believe me, just look at some of the 70 casters in town.

also, concerning staff users vs non staff users -- yes, you get a 30-70~% decrease in costs, but also a 40-80% gem haste, so really you end up using slightly more mst/pst than non-staffers. the only real mst/pst 'bonus' staffers get is the two .5%/lvl mst/pst bonuses, which require points in their respective stats in order to have good effect.

Sherman, of course I am not a caster character, but I have noticed that Everence and Mana vault give very little effect compared for example lvling up HP and DUR. I am not sure but 4-5 mana for every skill lvl at 38-39 of mana vault is kind of very little ?

The thread about it...
http://forums.nodiatis.com/forums/bu...ult-skill.html

[zenga]

Originally Posted by sherman

You won't need many points in MST or PST if you use a staff and put tons of exp into Mana Vault and Everence to increase your max Mana and Energy, respectively.

As a DD caster you will at least want 1 to be a serious pool. On ugolin i have 2K+ energy (466 pst) and 300 mana (125 mst). The only use for mana is to be able to rebuild my energy.

[zenga]

Just did a test ... put everything in str, and only have pst enchants ... = 300 str - 1.2k energy
for pve in group of 3 thats ideal. But to solo i find it too low as the fights tend to last longer.

Not having reached the levels you veterans mention, I have no solid basis for comparison but I can say that with Minroth as a hybrid build I have also most of my melee points in Str for some rather effective staff attacks and only 125 in PSt. In Magic stats I have most points in Cnc (over 200 now) and 127 MSt.

With the aid of both Perseverance and Longevity skills above my char level I have pushed my energy/mana pools to ~ 230 each. I find that by also keeping Mental conservation skill above char level and staves considerably higher than char level (along with the 5 magic colours i use also above char level) I have plenty of mana/energy to run my current levels of gems (r6s) in conjunction with a balance gem and mana/invigorating cantrips, mana bursts and invigorates.

Time will tell whether my strat will continue to work as effectively at the real high levels, but for now I rarely run out of either even in protracted battles against Black bosses.

[Smashbros]

ok im a DD caster. i am the necro class. and i just want to point a few things out:

1) JUST focusing on red gems is idiotic at best, for that alone you will loose out on possible damage (based on lvl 50 cause of max pouch slots). IF you have Gem Handling at lvl 50 you can use 4* of each gem. with 50 spots say you want 30 of them DD. with the 4* of each gem you can have a MAX of 12 of the highest lvl DD red gems. which means you need 18 gems on a lower lvl which kinda ****s all that up as then your doing less damage then having as many high end gems as you can.

2) Yes the skills to increase max energy and mana helps, BUT only help if you have high enough mana or energy to begin with as it is based on % which means the more base the more you gain.

3) i can kill a pink mob in 2-3 mins and still have energy and mana left (based on the right gem draw and not a high amount of resists) and i have 320 energy and 260 mana. (keep in mind almost NONE of my skills are lvled past 20)

4) a caster will be weak at a lower lvl BUT will get a ****load stronger at higher lvls, although it will cost a ****load.

about using only reds, now i believe Necros bonus is to blacks only, so to you, using reds IS pointless, and seeing as red dd out rank blacks, the ULTIMATE (and very hard to obtain) red dd gem pouch would contain 24 max rank red dd gems, and 24 red dd gems a rank lower, leaving you minus 2 gems, so u won't lose out on damage, granted i dont suggest doing that, since that leaves no room for mana cants/bursts and balance gems, but still, i think you get the point.

for a warlock though, do not neglect the black DD bonus. if you are going to go ALL red, you will need a ridiculously large manapool. as zenga said, he has around 2000 energy for an energy-heavy pouch. if you go all reds, you'll need probably *more* than 2000 mana because the red cost is significantly higher than black cost. which would not be a problem, except that for maximum effect, you need 300 int and at least 200 cnc. i'm not saying it can't be done, but it is not at all easy. take advantage of the bonus to both and balance your pouch, and you'll find yourself needing a fairly low amount of energy and mana.

edit - as to necro...black gems come in such a variety that you can forget reds and add in some poison dot's for support and mana-pool draw...especially with the new skills, dots are looking pretty nice now.

[Smashbros]

Originally Posted by severus

about using only reds, now i believe Necros bonus is to blacks only, so to you, using reds IS pointless, and seeing as red dd out rank blacks, the ULTIMATE (and very hard to obtain) red dd gem pouch would contain 24 max rank red dd gems, and 24 red dd gems a rank lower, leaving you minus 2 gems, so u won't lose out on damage, granted i dont suggest doing that, since that leaves no room for mana cants/bursts and balance gems, but still, i think you get the point.

no using reds is NOT pointless.

i get a bonus to black gems granted, BUT if i dont use reds then i dont get flare up, soo my gems are automatically weaker. with 2 coloured DD gems in my pouch (NOTICE I SAID DD NOT DoT) i can get up to 24 gems of max lvl annd cause with the black bonus, i would be doing approx the same amount of damage with a black dd as i would with a red dd it works out well.

in saying that though, having 1 rank lower gems can help to still do damage and fill up the pouch, but you dont want too many of these.

ok i shoulda probably made that a bit clearer, not counting auras, i was speaking in the sense of dd gems, lack of clarification on my part, but still i think u'd be best off avoiding red dd gems since ur bonus is to all blacks and u have some other black gems to pool from, cuz wile flare up may keep ur blacks on par with ur reds, ur not taking advantage of ur class bonus 100%.

of course i'm not going to do 100% reds pouch, thats redicoulsy hard to make.

and my reds crit for like 133 where as my blacks crit for like 90, which can be avg damage for my red gems

oh and about having the rank lower gems, if they still deal more damage than the same ranked blacks, i'd take them, since my pouch is built that way more slightly

damage is nice, but when your reds start costing 200 mana per cast...you'll love your blacks.

[Smashbros]

Originally Posted by severus

ok i shoulda probably made that a bit clearer, not counting auras, i was speaking in the sense of dd gems, lack of clarification on my part, but still i think u'd be best off avoiding red dd gems since ur bonus is to all blacks and u have some other black gems to pool from, cuz wile flare up may keep ur blacks on par with ur reds, ur not taking advantage of ur class bonus 100%.

of course i'm not going to do 100% reds pouch, thats redicoulsy hard to make.

and my reds crit for like 133 where as my blacks crit for like 90, which can be avg damage for my red gems

oh and about having the rank lower gems, if they still deal more damage than the same ranked blacks, i'd take them, since my pouch is built that way more slightly

but having a 100% black dd pouch is stupid as im not taking advantage of another skill, red magic for auras, that im lvling already.

Severus what lvl are you??

im using rank 10 red and black gems, both do roughly the same damage with next to no skills raised, and i can crit for 337 (max ive seen) with a gem, and my average hit (non crit) is around 150