v1.171 Math / DPS Breakdown

Ive done some math on the recent changes and how they affect DPS for a Archer/Beast master hybrid - The full body of my calculations can be found below for anyone who would like to look. Let me know if you spot any calculation errors.

Since i can not post links - remove the spaces

ht tp:// spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=rJ1W3YKTnCSWxrZvoMKQupg&output=html

and since i cant figure out how to show the formulas ill have Zenga host the original xls when he comes back online, i will have him post a link to it later in the thread.

For Those who do not wish to read the whole spreadsheet (or those who just don't care about math) i will re-post the summary of my findings here ( the bold dps portion at the end of the spreadsheet)

- Since formatting on a forum isn't my strong suit i apologize if this gets ugly:

(the %'s are depending on how pet dmg varies - not tested but believed between 50-70% of max)
(All Skills at 100)

-----Spec------------------DPS50%----DPS60%----DPS70%-------Exp Required
No Whip/No Pet---------104.11------104.11------104.11--------2,607,188,000
No Whip/2 Boas---------117.43------120.09------122.75--------4,953,657,200
1 Whip/2 Boas-----------107.91------112.62------117.32--------6,257,251,200
2 Whip/ 2 Boas----------102.34------109.09------115.83--------6,257,251,200
81slash*2 + 2 boa------130.82------133.48------136.14--------4,953,657,200
81Slash * 2/No pet-----117.50------117.50------117.50--------3,128,625,600




So what conclusions can we draw, these are my opinions - the 3.6billion exp required to go from a straight up archer with no pets to a archer/beast hybrid for a ~10% dps increase is crazy, it simply isnt worth raising the skills required for a minimal increase in effectiveness.

Also You can see that using whips with boa's will actually decrease your damage when compared to using just 2 boas, even though you need an additional 1.3billion exp to gain all the benefits. The Loss of damage is not worth the increase in healing.

The only time that an archer would ever consider using whips with these new skills is when fighting +10-+15 bosses, otherwise they are a complete waste and now have removed all benefits of a spec.

Also take note, when using the 74 epic whips as weapons (as a beastmaster would be) - with 100 all skills, beast master dps is in the 117-131 range, add to that the skills not included(growl and intimidate) and the epic proc from the 74, this update helped pure beastmasters a huge amount - you may not like the way it has changed, but the numbers tell a different story.

[zenga]

Originally Posted by Hidden

and since i cant figure out how to show the formulas ill have Zenga host the original xls when he comes back online, i will have him post a link to it later in the thread.

aye aye chief

Link link link

[Glitchless]

Considering all the other benefits of using the whip/pet combo from pets both dealing full damage and healing at the same time, and procing stuns, you'd have to be pretty dull to think the DPS should match in order for it to be worthwhile.

Jeff -

The stun proc only goes off if you are autoattacking with the whips, intimidate/growl have 0 effect on bow users who use whips.

At higher levels the only time you are in need of healing from pets is when a 10+ level boss is berserk or potentially in pvp, for normal pve they have little use(in group situations. in solo situations this is a small benefit that is useful) - it is a nice boost to have for those situations, but not one that warrants such a large dps loss i feel.

-----Spec------------------DPS50%----DPS60%----DPS70%
2 Whip/ 2 Boas
(using 78 bowset)-------102.34------109.09------115.83
81slash*2 + 2 boa-------130.82------133.48------136.14
2x 74 whips + 2 boas----116.67------123.42-------130.16
(autoattacking)

Considering all the other benefits of using the whip/pet combo from pets both dealing full damage and healing at the same time, and procing stuns, you'd have to be pretty dull to think the DPS should match in order for it to be worthwhile.

Considering that using dual 74 whips gives comparable damage to melee weapons, i would like to know what other benefits a bow user using whips/pets receives over a pure beastmaster to deserve this 15% loss of dps.

Also a quick note: prior to the second patch which added the 25% delay per whip these would have been the dps numbers for a bow/beastmaster:

-----Spec------------------DPS50%----DPS60%----DPS70%
2 Whip/ 2 Boas
(using 78 bowset)--------124.97------131.72------138.46
81slash*2 + 2 boa--------130.82------133.48------136.14
2x 74 whips + 2 boas----116.67------123.42-------130.16
(autoattacking)

a change to 20-25% for both whips combined would have brought the bow user into the middle range between the two.

[Glitchless]

Good point about the stun
The intention of a hybrid archer/beastmaster is not to maximize DPS but they are not currently getting enough benefits from the beast mastery skills. We will be changing Growl so that you do not need to be autoattacking in order for it to work which will be a great boost to hybrid defense.

Thank you for looking into it, the gain of utility from stuns to offset the loss in dps is an acceptable trade-off for any spec.

[Glitchless]

Growl, not Intimidate. It would likely cause you to avoid 20% of damage so that + the substantial extra pet heals should offset the loss in DPS.

Ok, i see i mixed up the skills, it is still a utility trade off for dps which is fine in my book.

[zenga]

level 100 growl = 10% miss
level 100 kiting = 20% miss

thats 30% skill based misses, ... dang

[Sapreaver]

level 100 growl and 2 pets is 20% zenga