Double-dipping on the epic revenues

Jeff,

I understand that this, like any other, is a MMO designed with profit in mind. At the same time, we the players subscribe to it with limited budgets. We understand that we have many options when choosing which packages we choose to subscribe to, and appreciate that we have many options. I upgraded to the Standard package so that I could utilize the Auction House, as well as participate in Trades.

I'm a bit let down, now that I see that I can't sell a rare epic without purchasing Virtues. I was fine with understanding that I wouldn't be able to use them personally without the Virtues, but the current system preventing me from being able to pass this item along and gain some benefit for myself is really upsetting. It also upsets me to know that for every Auction-Housed epic, Glitchless gets $20 (2 Virtues per each the buyer and seller). This game is gets to the point that it becomes more expensive than the pricier MMOs players came to play this one to avoid.

Please at least consider removing the Virtue requirement from selling the items on the Auction House. Such a rare drop should not go wasted.

[Hopilus]

the great thing about virtues - not only do you get extra xp per virtue, but, so many epics need the same two virtues. so, yeah, you may spend ten dollars on one epic, and five on another, and between those three to four virtues, you have the whole twenty five suit and two bloodclaws equipped.

i agree with Edaj, having to pay real money just to sell a specific Epic item when you already paid to have the right to trade and sell on auction is really bad =/ it should be needed only to equip the item, not to sell it, or else they just because Epic deadweight, maybe even Epic trash since youre stuck with destroying them if you cant pay the price

Originally Posted by Hopilus

the great thing about virtues - not only do you get extra xp per virtue, but, so many epics need the same two virtues. so, yeah, you may spend ten dollars on one epic, and five on another, and between those three to four virtues, you have the whole twenty five suit and two bloodclaws equipped.

Yes, but the point I'm making is that I paid the standard subscription fee because I wanted access to everything the game has to offer, which as far as I was told beforehand included all Auction House functions. Now I understand that I can't wear the epics without the Virtues, and that's fine. But to have to destroy these items because I don't want to dig into my fixed income is a disservice to the Nodiatis community.

When you buy a toaster, do you complain that its package didn't mention that you need to buy bread? =P

Seriously, though... If you don't want to invest the real cash, you should explore your other option: save up enough in-game gold to purchase timecards, which can each be traded in for virtues at a 1:1 ratio.

And... Bear in mind that trade is not always done all at once: Sometimes just involves some spit & a handshake.
If your epic find is valuable enough, you might try soliciting other players to give you timecards in advance in order to allow you to acquire the virtues necessary to give them your item... While this probably won't fly for Bloodclaw or level 9 sleeve, I would think that a level 25 chest may be enough incentive to entice someone that already has these virtues...

[Flashus]

your forgetting that some epics and sold and re-sold numerous times. not just by finder the the next buyer..so i would increase your double dipping to multiple dipping.

all in all it depends on demand. the first few epics aren't really worth equipping in my opinion.

[zenga]

Originally Posted by Flashus

all in all it depends on demand. the first few epics aren't really worth equipping in my opinion.

I'd say the opposite, a level 9 suit has way more impact on a level 9 than a 48 suit on a lvl 48 player. Same goes for the weapons.

Let me try to explain this softly, Yes Epics have virtues which cost money, yes it would be great to just beable to sell them to store, that in turn creates a farming gold market, and thus increases prices 10 times what they are now, theres no kind way to make it so you can get rid of virtues entirely without destroying the economy itself, placing limits on them in turn places a hold on farming epics to sell to store to use gold to get timecards, alot of players have 2-5 alts some have way more, I can only imagine what would happen to the market if their were no virtues.


I guess in the end while it sucks for some the larger picture itself is what is being protected and in that I can settle for the fact that virtues have to be purchased, rest assured you can still find an INGAME solution that will not require you yourself to make a cash purchase, eventually you will have enough gold to purchase a timecard which then can be used to purchase the virtue.

Yeah, I have to agree that while the price may seem a bit high, it can be achieved without paying real cash. Not that it bothers me much, $5 works about about 3 quid sterling for me. Not much more than a pint of beer.

Responding in the order the posts were made:
@Emperor - No, I do not complain when a toaster doesn't come with bread, because that's expected. But when I chose to subscribe to this game, I clicked a button at the bottom of a page that can be considered a contract, and on that page, it read, "Removes all trade restrictions." It did not read, "Removes trade restrictions (except on Epic items)" I get that you have to pay to wear the better gear in this game, and in all honesty, it's likely the downside that will turn me away from continuing with it.

This entire game is a grind. It doesn't end. When you're not grinding for one thing, you're grinding for another. So, to suggest going out and grinding yet again so that I can gather the (I think the minimum I've ever seen these listed at is) 50,000 gold required to pay for ONE of the two Time Cards necessary to pay for the ability to sell an item I've already technically earned by slaying the beast, and having it drop, is absurd. Allow me to be clear, here. I have no intention of doing anything to generate more time cards for a game that I've already purchased in real world dollars a few months worth. I am also not willing to heckle with another person to give me two time cards so that I can afford to get the item, as that lowers the amount of in-game currency they'd be willing to pay me, the person that earned the item find.

I also like Zenga's comparison, because if that's the case, the only players capable of grinding up the quantity of in-game money within a reasonable amount of time are likely to be the higher-level characters, whom from that feedback, could care less.

@TalesofPirate, While I can understand where you're coming from, you appear to be blindly defending the way things are, instead of considering alternatives. The concept of Virtues in the first place reflects that a given warrior (in the broadest sense of the word) has to have certain qualities to use the weapon. For lack of a better example, think of the Master Sword in Zelda. The whole 'sword in the stone' thing meant the weapon sought someone with the desired qualities... a chosen one. Now, given that understanding, with a straight face, try to read the following phrase, "In order to sell that sleeve, you must exhibit the virtues of Humility and Courage." I facepalmed a little... It makes no sense.

ok well I've read all the different point of views and all I can say is I like the way it is now. Dont change anything. No one is forced to use epics, as someone has pointed out to me before the rare items are close enough to some epics you can do just fine without them.

I think the purpose of epics requiring virtues (besides $$$) was for Pker's. If someone could not afford to pay for the virtues or just choose not to, they would have to leave it in inventory or destroy it. Which is an incentive for Pker's to pk hoping they find the un-sb epic waiting for them after the kill. Kind of like a slot machine.

If you've felt cheated out of something ask for a refund and stop playing. Jeff is a reasonable person if it's justified. but nothing is guaranteed.

Final words
*In a silly Asian convenience store ladies voice* "You don' like, don’ play"

[zenga]

One of the few thread on this forum where I understand both sides :P

1. Yes it doesn't make much sense on first sight.
2. Yes it's expensive to buy the virtue pack (however, 30 pints of beer = one night out).
3. Yes as a low level player it will take a while before you will be able to buy the virtues with ingame gold. And most likely you will be beyond the player level that you can use it. And no you won't earn it back with selling it most likely. But that is just the very beginning. Once you start to get the +25 epic drop you can do mostly with ingame gold.
4. The virtues are the ideal way to avoid mass gold farming and let people play different accounts at the same time without having to bother about silly security codes and stuff like that.

Summary: in the first levels you will probably end up deleting your epic drop (they don't drop 'that' often). And when you get your 2nd or 3rd drop you will be able to use it / sell it and compensate the tc purchase. From that moment the game gets a new dimension. That is of course when you don't stay 2 months at level 9 and when you have a standard/premium account. So in the end, don't bother about the first epic. It might be frustrating but believe me, you can see it as an incentive to become higher and enhance your account a lot. This without having to use irl money.

Originally Posted by richp

Final words
*In a silly Asian convenience store ladies voice* "You don' like, don’ play"

I'm considering it. The whole concept of a game catering to item-theft through PK by charging extra for services already paid for is stupid. Mind you, even item theft via PK is a transfer of item, and I still don't have the Virtues to make that transfer. I'm sure the game doesn't work like that... too much logic involved.

ok first off only unsoul bound items can be taken being if you equip they are safe.

epics which you don't have the virtues for ( and you can't even move an epic without having the virtues) so whining about not being able to resell it via ah when you should have noticed you couldn't move them without the virtues is just childish

if you don't want to pay the money and you don't want the epic for yourself or the virtues on it you can destroy it.

you don't have to pay 1 single cent on this game

yes it is harder without having a standard account, but you are given an hour a day of rrt (most other free games don't give even that much) you can gain gold by doing quests, and yes it takes time but how you chose to play is up to you

suck it up and drive on or leave the choice is yours

Therein lies the other half of my reason for considering leaving. You can't have a constructive conversation with someone else about a flaw in the game without insults being flung around. I'll play out my time, and then I'm done. Some of you are absolute asshats.