1.43 & strike through

Originally Posted by Gurnison

Can I assume this skill is multiplied and not added to the existing chance?

.

I hope that Gurnison is right....
i have not a Guardian char myself btw, but i felt the skill a little too "punishing" for that particular build. I think Music is right here...

Originally Posted by Gurnison

Can I assume this skill is multiplied and not added to the existing chance?

For example if someone has a 10% chance to avoid a block, then 100 in this skill means (for 1-handed)

10% * 1.15 = 11.5% chance to avoid a block

NOT

10% + 15% = 25% chance to avoid a block


Also, the concern for guardians and others with high level blocking or parry skills is that this "offsets" their skill on a one-to-one basis.

In other words, the concern is that if a guardian has 15% chance to block, then 100 in strikethrough (1H)

15% - 15% = 0% chance to block

But I assume it works like this

15% - (15% * 15%) = 15% - 2.25% = 12.75% chance to block.
.

If it works on the one-to-one basis as you put it then shields at high lvl pvp are all but completely pointless. Assuming all skills at lvl 100 anyone using a shield outside of guardians would have only a 5% chance to block against 1H weapons and none at all against 2H weapons. Even a guardian would only get 17% against 1H and 2% against 2H, and to even get those numbers would require lvls 3 skills(blocking, CS, and CE) against the single skill of strikethrough.

I hope you are correct in you assumption. If not then shields have little hope even in group pvp of doing much good.

Is it just me or are you guys retarded? this will benefit everyone except archers! you have shield, you have a 1 handed weapon............ Now all of a sudden, with this update, you can hit more!!!!!........................... Whats the problem????

Originally Posted by Rayzor

Is it just me or are you guys retarded? this will benefit everyone except archers! you have shield, you have a 1 handed weapon............ Now all of a sudden, with this update, you can block more!!!!!........................... Whats the problem????


**** me!!!!!! these guys want an M60 and some claymores to take mobs down!!!!

I wish I didnt have to reply to this message, but since noone did yet -

think before you post and read the skill description please.

Every point in this skill reduces the chance of your melee attacks being blocked or parried by 0.15% if using one-handed weapons or 0.3% if using two-handed weapons for a 15% or 30% reduction at skill of 100.


Perhaps I'm missing something but I fail to see how a skill that reduces the chances of melee attacks being blocked is going to allow me to block more.

[Relic]

I have to agree with Rayzor.

And i would like to put in my two cents.

Just shut up and play nod

Still doesn't explain how I'm supposed to block more with this update relic. That is something that I'd like to have explained.

The only player character class in Nodi that is SILLY enough to use a shield at lvl 60-70, where everyone is goind for super fast dual ultimate 1h weapons, is a guardian class ( not talking about archers)

Out of those 100 lvl 50-70 players in the top lists - I could name you right now not more than 3 people of them that use shields. And i mean not use shields for occasional boss encounters, but use it all the time - vs monsters or in pvp duels or anything else.

So that *word* in description about *blocking* affects those mere poor little quantity of guardians that are out there with shield and whole guardian class in the game, which is by the way 17 guardians out of 450 top list players by experience. (Dont worry I did the count myself).

Do you really think that *blocking* is needed there ?

The only player character class in Nodi that is SILLY enough to use a shield at lvl 60-70, where everyone is goind for super fast dual ultimate 1h weapons, is a guardian class ( not talking about archers)

Out of those 100 lvl 50-70 players in the top lists - I could name you right now not more than 5 people of them that use shields. And i mean not use shields for occasional boss encounters, but use it all the time - vs monsters or in pvp duels or anything else.

So that *word* in description about *blocking* affects those mere poor little quantity of guardians that are out there with shield and whole guardian class in the game, which is by the way 17 guardians out of 450 top list players by experience. (I did the count myself).

Do you really think that *blocking* is needed there ?


PS. sorry for doubling this post in another thread, i felt that it was needed.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by Music

The only player character class in Nodi that is SILLY enough to use a shield at lvl 60-70, where everyone is goind for super fast dual ultimate 1h weapons, is a guardian class ( not talking about archers)

Out of those 100 lvl 50-70 players in the top lists - I could name you right now not more than 3 people of them that use shields. And i mean not use shields for occasional boss encounters, but use it all the time - vs monsters or in pvp duels or anything else.

So that *word* in description about *blocking* affects those mere poor little quantity of guardians that are out there with shield and whole guardian class in the game, which is by the way 17 guardians out of 450 top list players by experience. (Dont worry I did the count myself).

Do you really think that *blocking* is needed there ?

Just comes down to the simple fact that you didn't plan ahead when choosing your class.

Seriously, no hardcore RPG gamer, online or otherwise, would go for a 'shield' only class. Versatility is key in any RPG.

The only ones who don't seem to be complaining are us 'DWing oafs' and casters.

Archers are compalining, guardians are complaining, and crafters are complaining.

Do away with your misconception that you and others of your 'kind' have been 'wronged'. It will only make the game less enjoyable for you.

I think this game had too many classes anyway

[Glitchless]

There are 26 classes in Nodiatis. If the top 450 were evenly distributed among all 26 classes there would be 17.307 guardians.

Originally Posted by Music

The only player character class in Nodi that is SILLY enough to use a shield at lvl 60-70, where everyone is goind for super fast dual ultimate 1h weapons, is a guardian class ( not talking about archers)

Out of those 100 lvl 50-70 players in the top lists - I could name you right now not more than 3 people of them that use shields. And i mean not use shields for occasional boss encounters, but use it all the time - vs monsters or in pvp duels or anything else.

So that *word* in description about *blocking* affects those mere poor little quantity of guardians that are out there with shield and whole guardian class in the game, which is by the way 17 guardians out of 450 top list players by experience. (Dont worry I did the count myself).

Do you really think that *blocking* is needed there ?

As #290 and one of those 17 I would really like for it to be there, as it stands I'm feeling the urge to reroll, but that would just leave 16 in the top 450. If anything the lack of guardians shows maybe they are a little underpowered.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by Sylvant

As #290 and one of those 17 I would really like for it to be there, as it stands I'm feeling the urge to reroll, but that would just leave 16 in the top 450. If anything the lack of guardians shows maybe they are a little underpowered.

Go ahead and reroll. Music and other guardians themselves are going full dual wield anyhoo. And it's not cuz of the changes. They're doing it cuz DWing increases rate of char levelling. Speed kills..faster kills = higher rate of xp over rt.

All about DPS in this game.

Games are mostly about fun. Get a caster for that, fun guaranteed

[Weirdgus]

I have a guardian from those 450 top xp w/e and I must say that I will always use a shield in pve except for like grey traveling where DWing makes it faster.
I see no point in having a guardian if I don't benefit from the bonus and CE/CS modifiers.

Dual wielding is the only path one can take for pve using melee weapons such is the way it is. The 1H and shield approach can work there but it's simply more efficient to dual wield if you are fighting solo nor does it work in 1 vs 1 pvp against dual wield. Of course nothing does nor do I see that as an issue.

The way it reads strikethrough looks to make the 1H and shield approach largely ineffective in the one area where it appeared to have some promise, group pvp. The whole idea of having a tank to bare the brunt of the dmg and also being able to block alot of it thus surviving long enough to let his fellow group members, be they dual wielders, archers, or casters, do the work by dishing out the dmg certainly appears to have been rendered largely ineffective. Maybe I'm wrong in looking at it that way but it appears to have taken one potential path all but out of pvp right as clan wars are about to come about which is where perhaps group pvp will take shape.

I hope I'm wrong.

Also I'm still waiting for the explanation as to how this patch will allow me to block more.

Lol Jeff, I knew that you would do that little trick ^_^v

But you still included the "if" statement, since they are not evenly distributed unfortunately.

Anyways, the only sane people that would use a shield are guardians and only about 2-3 of them are actually doing it, thats out of 450 ^^.

Anyways maybe this game wasnt meant for a shield use, but certainly the description of a guardian says differently.

I guess this change diminishes the group pvp only where a guardian would be suitable in upcoming clan wars, like Maydon said.

Let me quote him from another thread please

Dual wielding is the only path one can take for pve using melee weapons such is the way it is. The 1H and shield approach can work there but it's simply more efficient to dual wield if you are fighting solo nor does it work in 1 vs 1 pvp against dual wield. Of course nothing does nor do I see that as an issue.

The way it reads strikethrough looks to make the 1H and shield approach largely ineffective in the one area where it appeared to have some promise, group pvp. The whole idea of having a tank to bare the brunt of the dmg and also being able to block alot of it thus surviving long enough to let his fellow group members, be they dual wielders, archers, or casters, do the work by dishing out the dmg certainly appears to have been rendered largely ineffective. Maybe I'm wrong in looking at it that way but it appears to have taken one potential path all but out of pvp right as clan wars are about to come about which is where perhaps group pvp will take shape.

I hope I'm wrong.

Also I'm still waiting for the explanation as to how this patch will allow me to block more.

Also another question here is if it a multiplied or added bonus? if it is added then a guardian would recieve 0% of his innate class bonus to block at lvl 100, because the max a guardian can get is 12 or 15% with shield and this makes it 15-15=0?

Hopefully, some light get shed on how strikethrough is calculated because it its a a flat 15% reduction a dual wielder if just plain better for everything including defense from what I see.

100 skills assumed for this

Guardian(with epic +3% block shield)
35% base block, 20% base parry
after strikethrough
20% base block, 5% base parry

Dual-Wielder
40% parry
after strikethrough
25% parry

Pretty much holds even defensively other than the fact Block is > parry for ranged and magic, and that the blocker has to used a a level 39 shield for the nice block skill buff and assumes the +3% blocking is a flat buff and not a multiplier in which case the dual-wielder would have a higher parry rate than the guardians combined parry/block.

[Glitchless]

The math in this thread is horrendous. I don't believe a single post has been made with correct computation.

If you have one skill that gives you a 10% chance of something and another skill that also gives you a 15% chance of the same thing happening then they're NOT added or multiplied. They each happen individually and the resulting chance is 23.5% ie the chance that neither will occur: 1 - (.9 * .85).

If an defender has a 35% chance to block and the attacker has a 20% chance to strike through the block then the resulting chance to block is NOT 15%. If you prevent 20% of someone's blocks who normally blocked 35 out of 100 strikes then the result is he will then only block 28 of the 100 strikes - ie 20% less - ie 0.8 * 35 - ie 28%

(Both horrible threads merged)