caster armor?

hi guys,

I don't know if anyone has raised the issue of forcing caster classes to wear armor.
The current system is violating all traditions of (all) RPG systems as suiting and armor is vital for survival, due to the lack of proper wear.
Is it such a pain to have some +10/20/30/etc armor robes around whereas the prereq will be one of the magis skills?
This system (robes with +AC) definitely works in every other system ever played....

on the other hand any mage will look like a clown with staff in hand and head-to-toe in full body armor

Class specific armor topics have been discussed a lot lately.

Right now the caster class is at no disadvantage with other classes (armor wise) since as much as you can lvl your suiting - that armor you can equip. Just choose whats suits you best, either high ac or + to magic stats.
Since some armors are more suited for melee fighters with addon stats and others for magic users.

[Tridius]

or just buy the regular armor and enchant it

Guys, i understand the solutions, and thanks for them, but the issue is the role-playing partof it: NOT TO wear armor as a caster character

Orcinus, why conform to what others do? The casters wearing full body armor does not inhibit any casting ability anyways. All you are asking for is extra armor, adding a little more depth to the game. That I can agree with, but I do not agree that casting armor is a MUST.

well, actually ur point could be next step: inhibit casting with certain armor types.
the problem that most (players) care with nothing but to max out skills and exploit all means to gain more xp including casting like crazy while wielding a sword and shield in full armor....
seems the R has lost from rpg....

As it stands, if a caster doesn't wear armour, the caster will die very fast...especially angels :X

[Tridius]

Yeah we already went through this casters need armor but he wants alternative, there is now alternative, so live with it

first will be clans, runes, then the unfinished skills, then the new lvl 60+ and 80+ skills, then lvl cap will raise then we can do class specific skills, then we can do class specific armor

The convention of casters wearing robes breaks down like this:

1. Pre-Lord of the Rings people/books, like Merlin, who was some dude in a robe and "wizard hat" or a crazy forest druid, depending on the version.

2. Lord of the Rings: Gandalf, etc wore robes so wizards = robes.

(insert bunch of other books and whatnot between 2 and 3)

3. D&D said mages had to be waving their arms around, waggling their fingers and chanting (due to prior influences, of course) and so couldn't wear armor, not even open-faced helmets, for some reason, in order not to impede their movements and the sound of their chanting.

Nevermind that, if magic like that (or any magic) were real (I know, I know...), that, certainly, combat mages would just wear armor everywhere BUT on their arms and head. At least a breastplate or studded leather tunic-thing or SOMETHING, come on.

4. Except that, you know, ALL wizards are weaklings because they spend all their time reading books and so aren't strong enough to wear any thing weighing more than a few pounds, etc. Because we all know people who read and study all the time have no muscles and are either skinny or fat, certainly in no sort of shape at all.

Tangent: I recently got out of the US Army and, let me tell ya, even the skinniest guy or most petite woman can get around in 50/60/[Christ, whatever the crap you're sometimes forced to carry weighs] pounds of body armor + gear, after they get used to it. And even the most fit guy out there's going to have issues doing so until they've worn it for a couple weeks. You barely notice the weight, eventually, and can be surprisingly agile when need be, though you won't be running any marathons.

That said:

I have read absolutely none of the backstory on this game yet, however, I envision gem magic as grasping the gem in your hand, focusing on it and tapping its power. Or whatever. *shrug* Now, the people who'd have real issues would be the people with shields, or dual-wielders, right? I dunno.

ANYHOW, point is, it doesn't involve and kind of complex movement or chanting and so, basically, there's not much reason why a guy in full plate would have an issue using magic, 'cept maybe for his gauntlets, which apparently don't exist in the world of Nodiatis, anyway. ;p

So:

While I'd like to see robes, too (as well as cloaks, rings, earrings, boots, gloves, etc), I don't have a problem with a Wizard in full platemail, at least in the world of Nodiatis.

Thank ye.

- Keph

Edit: "Realistically", though, it'd be nice to see something like, ok... Heavier armor mitigates more and more damage, but gives a penalty to parrying and blocking, maybe even Dexterity/Agility, while lighter armor allows more freedom of movement, of course, while mitigating less. For a suit of leather to give the same amount of mitigation as plate of the equivalent level, it'd have to be highly-enchanted and, therefore, rare and expensive. A robe or tunic, etc? Very expensive. Meaning most of us, at each level of Suiting would probably opt for the heavier armors, unless we had a sugar daddy/momma, were rich in our own right or got a lucky drop.

And a guy in a heavily-enchanted suite of plate would = tank, as we're all used to.

[Hopilus]

hm....i might have to dig up some of my old books that contain "battle mages" who used bows and arrows, and wore full plated armor.
not all mages are known to wear robes.

While you presented a comprehensive overview, I would like to highlight some controversies.

Casters usually despise physical activities including all kind of self-defence which is not induced by magic. While battle mages and warlocks has a practical view on magic and the use of it, they are usually strictly limited to destruction and even their power does not match a real mage who devoted his life to the art of magic.



On the other hand, usually fantasy and rpg clearly states that armor is not only limiting casting in the movement and causing disturbance, but by blocking the magical energies and chanels of the caster. While Nodiatis is using gems, this can not be an argument as it still consumes mana and/or energy too.

Besides this, a caster usually simply has no time and energy to train in anything but magic.


My issues with skill-limiting and items come hand in hand: fighter classes should be limited in magic, casters in fighting skills etc, while giving proper gear to live with the limitation.
A warlock or battlemage-like character could wear armor at some extent and train in weapons, but not to that proficiency like the fighters and not in all the skills; and also, a ranger should be familiar with (only) the basic disciplines of life and green magic (only).

It would make life definatly more difficult, but roleplaying will be more pronounced, groups will come together on class, and not destination-basis, a dueller will consider the opponent's class too and not only the level, pvp event will require completely different strategies to survive....

Yes, it will mean the dawn of the dual-wielding mages, fully armored rangers and bow-lover paladins just to list a few, but I think the gain is much bigger than the loss.

I can hardly refute the idea of armor interfering with the flow of mana/energy (how could I? ), and I can't say I dislike the idea from a game balance point of view.

That said, perhaps yet another skill could be implemented: Armored Casting. It would be sort the same thing, armor-wise, as my Sword/Spear/Hammermage idea (if you read that thread) -- if armor DID interfere with the flow of mana/energy, this skill would offset that to some extent. How great an extent would require balance considerations, of course.

Might it be a skill not necessarily worth training, at least for a "pure" caster? Maybe. It'd certainly be worth training a bit for the more warrior/archer types, but a caster might find the benefit still doesn't make up for the loss of casting ability while wearing heavier armor. But maybe it would be worth it for, say, leather (light) or chain (medium), depending on how much tankage the individual needed or desired. Either way, I don't think it matters. Your cloth-wearing caster would still be the master of destruction or healing or buffing, but could be move up and down the ladder, as desired. At the high-end, maybe the prohibitive cost/rareness of Epics, not to mention encumberance, could limit the ability to carry around the "perfect" set for each "level" of casting/tanking, though it would probably still be possible, eventually.

Anywho, I'm all for moremoremore skills in games, even if they don't provide that great a benefit, ESPECIALLY when we're not capped on skills.

For me, the more and more complex the skill system can get and the more complex the interactions between skills, equipment and class is, the happier I am. Although I'm still quite the newbie, I already appreciate the considerations I have to make concerning gems, their mana/energy efficiency and DPS and my own skills and stats. The more in-depth it gets, the better. Yeah, buddy.

*break*

Anyhow, looks like I've kind of strayed from the original topic, huh? Sorry. I think what this all really boils down to is that some of us are kind of cringing at the idea of a what our characters are wearing vs. the kind of character we imagine them to be. Is a dual dagger wielding rogue in a suit of Death Plate of Doom and Such what people are used to? Does it seem a bit stupid? Yeah, maybe. Same thing for mages, but less so, though that's simply my opinion. Definitely goes against convention.

Here's the thing, though.

The more and more armor sets there are, the more individual drawings having to be done, right? At least if we want to keep the quality and individuality of equipment icons that we currently have (which I think are great, btw). The only person whose name I ever hear mentioned who develops this game is Jeff (I think), though I don't know if he's the only one. Regardless, I doubt this game has a large development team, and probably only one guy doing the art, though I could be wrong, of course.

One of the things I always hated about EverQuest, which I played for a loooonnng time, was how a scant few equipment icons were re-used for the hundreds and thousands of different pieces of equipment there were. And sometimes you just knew they picked one at random, 'cause you'd have a golden plate boot icon for...oh, I dunno...Suede Boots of Sneaking About Quietly. Which was annoying, but hardly important. However, those icons were small and not very detailed, whereas they're quite large and well-done (IMO) here. So... Anyway, kind of rambling, but my point is the more complex and varied the equipment system gets, the more work has to be done, at least to maintain the quality level. So either it gets done fast (if at all) and we most likely see the same pictures with maybe a slightly different tint or it gets done (if at all) slowly but with the same quality and many different, unique bits of armor.

Granted, a lot of (most?) people couldn't care less about what their armor icons look like, so long as it does what they need it to do, but I'm not one of 'em.

Rambleramble muttermutter...

- Keph, Author of Unecessary, Long, Possibly-Incoherent or Contradictory and Mostly-Unread Posts.

Addendum: ACTUALLY, I wouldn't mind seeing robes worn OVER armor. Or tabards or baldrics, etc. Maybe more like a sleeveless trenchcoat-type thing would make more sense and be less offensive to the imagination, though. :P

We definitely need more equipment slots, which I'm thinking runes are basically going to be. The rune's'll just replace the two rings, two earrings, cloak and...whatever, we're all used to from other games. If I'm right, can't say I'm a fan of that, but hey. Definitely makes things easier, icon-wise.

How does armour stop you from drawing a random gem in this game?

Casting spells in this kind of game is completely different to any other roleplaying game there is - the only thing you can compare it to is Magic: The Gathering (a trade-able card game).

Spells in this game the spell is contained in gems, which depletes your mana and energy reserves when used.

BTW: Diablo I & II - casters can wear armour and wield swords.

NO to different caster armors...

NO to making casters not wear armors...


Sho, The Fire-Mage

why is this thread still going??

I'm with SHO. No and NO.

Enjoy nod as the way it is and stop trying to make it like other games you've played in the past. It's just different deal with it.

with love,

~Rich

Originally Posted by Necrox

How does armour stop you from drawing a random gem in this game?

Casting spells in this kind of game is completely different to any other roleplaying game there is - the only thing you can compare it to is Magic: The Gathering (a trade-able card game).

Spells in this game the spell is contained in gems, which depletes your mana and energy reserves when used.

BTW: Diablo I & II - casters can wear armour and wield swords.

Please do not draw similarities between Nod and Diablo, THIS game has a highly complex ruleset and class system unlike the other and this world is not limited to merely slaughter creatures. These features should show in the items as well....

Originally Posted by richp

why is this thread still going??

I'm with SHO. No and NO.

Enjoy nod as the way it is and stop trying to make it like other games you've played in the past. It's just different deal with it.

with love,

~Rich

I do not want to make it like other games (not even close to them), what would be nice to see is:
Balance!

Whoever is denying the need of class specific items and skills is denying the fact that the current system is highly unbalanced.

Originally Posted by Orcinus

Please do not draw similarities between Nod and Diablo, THIS game has a highly complex ruleset and class system unlike the other and this world is not limited to merely slaughter creatures. These features should show in the items as well....

Ok then, I wont.

The Elder Scroll Series also allows you to wear any armour you like, and wield any weapon you like.

And these games, esp Daggerfall, are extremely complex in terms of resource gathering/item making/quests/etc.

EDIT: Actually the class system in this game is very similar to the morrowind class system.