Balance Changes after Arena

[Glitchless]

The following is planned for after this arena season:

-Abnegation will work against all types of incapacitate effects, not just gems.
-Debrainer damage increased, delay increased to 32, Daze effect reduced to a 1.5 sec

Update:
More than this was done. See announcements.

[Demons]

tyty. increased to what tho on the dmg ?

[Huggles]

Bad idea. You're just nerfing Debrainer and all crushers.

Where's the counter-balance? Where's the buff to the weakest damage type that only sees any success in PvP because of stuns?

I'd suggest something like this:

Stand your Ground (Life Magic Skill): This skill provides up to a 15% chance to negate any weapon-based incapacitate effect, but also cause the strike which would have caused that effect to deal up to 15% more damage, based on the level of the weapon used.

This way, gimpy low level gear doesn't benefit as much from the damage boost, and LG crushers remain somewhat viable in PvP.

Your proposed change would make the game more one-dimensional. I've seen it in many games: things just progress towards having high HP and doing lots of damage, and nothing else really matters. Bosses become immune to everything except damage, and they have unobtainable abilities that cut through your protections. We've already got the first half of that. I don't want to go any further.

[Huggles]

Also perhaps the fact that people use Debrainer instead of LG crushers means not that Debrainer is OP, but that the LG crush options are simply bad? I do admit, it's more a combination of both.

[Demons]

glitch ur idea is fine <_< those who wanna avoid stuns can suffer through lvl'ing a lg skill. and even then idk if abneg will be enough <_< at lvl 100 5 mins into fight 4 second stuns are still 2 seconds....and some combos can hit fast enough still lol

[Huggles]

Abnegation being balanced by being an LG skill is a clear violation of Grod's Law.

[Glitchless]

Forget that Abnegation is hard to level--hard not being equivalent at all to 'annoying' which would be Grod's law. It only reaches a reduction of incapacitates of 50% at max level after 5 minutes of fighting. These changes are balanced by the reality that crushers will still be viable in arena even vs. a team all with abnegation at 100. That's not even counting the fact that if and when stun lock is no longer the flavor of the month that you'll be far less likely to face a team that is properly equipped to truly counter it.

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

Forget that Abnegation is hard to level--hard not being equivalent at all to 'annoying' which would be Grod's law. It only reaches a reduction of incapacitates of 50% at max level after 5 minutes of fighting. These changes are balanced by the reality that crushers will still be viable in arena even vs. a team all with abnegation at 100. That's not even counting the fact that if and when stun lock is no longer the flavor of the month that you'll be far less likely to face a team that is properly equipped to truly counter it.

It is still a straight nerf to every crusher in the game. And crush, both mathematically and demonstrably, has the lowest DPS of any melee weapon type.

I guess it's also a nerf to every non-kok whip as well.

[Algamisu]

Nerf that samurai bow as well while you're at it, the most frustrating item in the game.

That bow, especially combined with the shield, deals way too high damage and there aren't many viable ways to counter it apart from DoT (and even then healers just overheal all the dps as cure increases over time faster than dot dmg.) Just check top 20 teams and you'll see more than 20 samurai users in just those teams.

It's especially ridiculous in the upcoming arena format in which people aren't very organized. Most people will just kill themselves. Just like in last 3v3 random we'll get mostly tanks in top 20 and have tons of people slowing arena down with those shields causing more dmg than most dps toons.

Perhaps make the damage not scale with bonus or make the users miti lower the bonus dmg the bow adds.

Drains are another thing that should be looked at but they aren't really that big of a deal until 1v1

[flipynifty]

make staves great again!

[Lakki]

Originally Posted by Algamisu

Nerf that samurai bow as well while you're at it, the most frustrating item in the game.

That bow, especially combined with the shield, deals way too high damage and there aren't many viable ways to counter it apart from DoT (and even then healers just overheal all the dps as cure increases over time faster than dot dmg.) Just check top 20 teams and you'll see more than 20 samurai users in just those teams.

It's especially ridiculous in the upcoming arena format in which people aren't very organized. Most people will just kill themselves. Just like in last 3v3 random we'll get mostly tanks in top 20 and have tons of people slowing arena down with those shields causing more dmg than most dps toons.

Perhaps make the damage not scale with bonus or make the users miti lower the bonus dmg the bow adds.

Drains are another thing that should be looked at but they aren't really that big of a deal until 1v1

I agree, the bow is too strong and you even told glitch last seasons 1v1 that the bow is OP. next thing you know everyone started running it and it made Samurai gear strong yes, but a little too strong. Samurai gear scales well into bonus, but people literally die from that bow alone at times. more samurai gear is insult to injury, and having to rely on a 2h, or relying mostly on dots to handle it is a pain at times. It isn't so bad when you actually have epic health, and counters to it, but even as a toon with 22k hp, I still tri-shot myself for like 1/4th of my health at times, so i'll have to stop attacking and stuff at times and just wait for high ticks to shaft...

This bow also highly discourages versatility at all, when was the last time we have even seen a tank use an Earthfusion, or GW shield lol? no point in even using some things when you can just go AC, and samurai bow, and just dominate. my matches against Senteza ( Bitkojn) team is extremely close because Soxson doesn't have a samurai bow, but if he did.

Block chance isn't valued much, or absorption shields much at all. every now and again i'll see a tank run maybe HR sleeves or a BP of it, but its pretty rare

[Tsutsu]

Originally Posted by Huggles

It is still a straight nerf to every crusher in the game. And crush, both mathematically and demonstrably, has the lowest DPS of any melee weapon type.

I guess it's also a nerf to every non-kok whip as well.

It needs the nerf. Crush is way too strong with the stuns. Also, it would be great if you could look into samurai bow, that thing does more damage than MOST people.

[Freakymagic]

+1 for nerfing a 99 epic being run by all the top teams.

+1 for nerfing samurai bow. When the #1 team does more dmg with samurai then they do with their weapons..... seems wrong. not to mention jsut about every top team in areana uses the bow if not the bow + other samurai gear (#1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, i could keep going but... that just shows how strong it is).

As well might i suggest looking at the 99 epic whip? 40% slow on a 18 delay weapon that stuns has always seemed a bit much, similar to debrainer.

[Tsutsu]

Originally Posted by Freakymagic

+1 for nerfing a 99 epic being run by all the top teams.

+1 for nerfing samurai bow. When the #1 team does more dmg with samurai then they do with their weapons..... seems wrong. not to mention jsut about every top team in areana uses the bow if not the bow + other samurai gear (#1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, i could keep going but... that just shows how strong it is).

Yes, its dumb im better off using a t1 samurai bow over a t5 Thraki.

P.S. Make beast kill through Tact/Vamp ca plz

[Lakki]

Originally Posted by Ideaman

It needs the nerf. Crush is way too strong with the stuns. Also, it would be great if you could look into samurai bow, that thing does more damage than MOST people.

he could look into nerfing incapacitates from bifs/split-shafts completely, but idk if this would render them useless or not. the intended effect on them was to just split damage, but the incapacitates is what makes bifs/splits so godly too XD

[Tsutsu]

Originally Posted by Lakki

he could look into nerfing incapacitates from bifs/split-shafts completely, but idk if this would render them useless or not. the intended effect on them was to just split damage, but the incapacitates is what makes bifs/splits so godly too XD

I really would just rather see stun length halved. It's pretty ridiculous that it is 4 seconds at base. Gives you 2 attack rotations per each stun to re-proc it and continue a stun lock.... per toon....

[Huggles]

Putting the proposed changes aside, are there any changes planned to make the existing (and future) LG crushers more viable to use?

Demon Eye Hell Hammer, the Ender of Suffering, The Doubler, and Hammer of Unity see pretty much no competitive play, outside of archers using doublers. With the procs the way they are, there's little surprise that the lower-DPS debrainers were being used instead.

[Glitchless]

Originally Posted by Huggles

Putting the proposed changes aside, are there any changes planned to make the existing (and future) LG crushers more viable to use?

Demon Eye Hell Hammer, the Ender of Suffering, The Doubler, and Hammer of Unity see pretty much no competitive play, outside of archers using doublers. With the procs the way they are, there's little surprise that the lower-DPS debrainers were being used instead.

Yes

[Tsutsu]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

Yes

Don't over buff please.

[Wulfrym]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

The following is planned for after this arena season:

-Abnegation will work against all types of incapacitate effects, not just gems.
-Debrainer damage increased, delay increased to 32, Daze effect reduced to a 1.5 sec

making it harder for crushers but ok