Staff DD Caster PVP/PVE revisitted?

[NoRemorse]

First of all , this post is not meant to whine but to see how the community sees this and if a change is needed.



In the last years all builds can do AOE now due gems/skills , this used to be the homeground of a staff DD caster and made them lethal in 3vs3.


AoE gems ruled for a very long time without balance and that is exactly not what i looking for , i am looking for a way to counter someone with 700-750 CNT vs my 985 CNC and 635 INT to actually land on a regular base instead of being nullified all together due auras.
Yes yes , gemshattering , apoc gems and such an option but i was thinking more on the following change.


Let the skill raze go from 20% to 25% or maybe 30% but the skill only works with a staff and only for DD like it does now.


Uptiering raidens and ebone staff will not do much unfortunately about this issue.




Another idea I have was making more use of the stats PRE and MRE.
The more you use your PRE ( gems , drains etc ) you harder it will be for you to parry/kite/block physical attacks ( this all in % left instead of the total amount you have from your PST)
MRE would work the same as PRE but for magical attacks and auras.
This resulting in longer fights you will "tire" out which makes sense to me.



Give me your thoughts please.

[Yadocxer]

I agree that stave casters have been left behind. I'm not sure this suggestion is the "best fix" to achieve some balance. I'll give some thought and post my suggestions later. But thanks for speaking out on this topic.

[Huggles]

I think some bonuses to staff damage itself might help close the gap. Something like a skill adding 20% of your Int to determine staff damage as if it were added to your Strength (but not accuracy).

So 150 Str 600 Int would deal damage as if you had 270 Str. It would make it harder to counter staff DD just by having high CNT while improving PvP and PvE performance.

Yes, it's a small bonus, but it's much easier to add a little bit and add more later if needed than to overbuff it and try to go back from there.

Suggested Psych Magic Skill: Strength of Mind
This skill provides a bonus to the value of your strength score when calculating staff damage, equal to up to 20% of your intelligence.

[Huggles]

Second suggested buff
Death Magic Skill: Sadism
When you have a staff equipped, this skill provides up to a 20% bonus to all min attack damage against stunned targets.

While this would not help red DD that much, it would increase staff damage (which already has good min damage), pet damage, and lesser-used blue and grey DD damage.

[Iesus]

The strangest with casters that is not mentioned anywhere is that you can do much better damage with dot/dd with a good bowset than having a staff

I imagine Legolas was a greater wizzard than Gandalf also shooting arrows and having better bonus by hanving weapons too with tempered hp bonus and a shield so you can make no damage to his elfish haircut

[NoRemorse]

Originally Posted by Iesus

The strangest with casters that is not mentioned anywhere is that you can do much better damage with dot/dd with a good bowset than having a staff

I imagine Legolas was a greater wizzard than Gandalf also shooting arrows and having better bonus by hanving weapons too with tempered hp bonus and a shield so you can make no damage to his elfish haircut

In the Land of Nod it is not that strange, all the procs enable the bowcaster to have a higher damageboost on top of double casting due having higher tiers, also bowcasters needless cnc/int to reach higher hits.


With this given the bowcaster has to have more mre/pre to upkeep due less bonus in that department but through vamping this can be overcome.

[ShadeDaScout]

welp, it was stated before that "spellbooks" as in quivers for staffers could help.

perhaps buffing tunnel vision to increase int as well and buffing sleight of hand from 10 to 15% at least?also all staves in general need a revisit, as only a few are relevant:boner, 2h kok and shielding/angel hair for healers that are rare as hell anyway.

[xshadowedxx]

I think the issue isnt skills, the issue is essentially staff casters have only one lg they can uptier, while double dd casters bow, quiver, arrow, and major weapon, I think glitch would have to add new items that is uptierable that work along with your staff for staff users.

[Holyspirit]

Reasons why staff is lacking vs bow casting :

- way smaller chance to hit (terrible at high zones)
- way smaller chance to double cast
- less 3 tempers
-lower max dmg (fateseal for example)
- less stats
- less defenses
- staff has close to none bonuses while uptiering
- any staff only bonuses can be easily ignored and make bow set viable by utilizing proper stats and runes (r6 btw - euphoric+mantic killed staff completely)

Staff is still viable in zones around your level but no near as good I'm higher zones .

As everyone above agreed : there is many issues that has to be addressed. There must be at least something that makes staff worth wielding that Noone else can do .

Perhaps easiest way as mentioned by fellow players would be rework of skills or set of items goes into archery set aka spellbooks

[Joanna]

First thing that comes to my mind would be to make damage curve for dd while wielding staff int dependant so there will be higher hits . It will not match DCDD archers but would narrow the gap between those two.

For me staff users should be the one dominating dd gems (they glass cannons with no shield)

What happen here is simple - like mentioned : r6 runes made alternative builds more viable and LG bonuses added in recent years made staffs lack behind.

I agree with Nore that it has to be revisited and possibly adjusted to bring it in line with recent builds

[Princenuada]

What if a new line of DD/AOE gems came out? an LG line that did something close to what black edge does, where the line of DD/AOE gems has a 33% chance to be unresistable and will only work when wielding a staff?

[Joanna]

Originally Posted by Princenuada

What if a new line of DD/AOE gems came out? an LG line that did something close to what black edge does, where the line of DD/AOE gems has a 33% chance to be unresistable and will only work when wielding a staff?

That is another excellent idea

[Deathhead]

Buff Staves since a true caster cant use a bow set?

[Holyspirit]

Originally Posted by Deathhead

Buff Staves since a true caster cant use a bow set?

We all did .

I used staff before as there's many skills that gives bonuses "when you have staff equipped "

For me it's pathetic when you wear bow set and spear fir example and you become way more powerful even after loosing all those bonuses .

Like it or not bow set is a way to go.

Buff this buff that won't work as easy . DC DD has endless options : whips , spear , Kris + beguiler, any combination with shield etc etc . Easy to adapt easy to swap if needed .

Staves ? Just staff ..end of story : no room to grow or progress with weaponry and swapping it is NOT an option as you become stunned zombie

[Blaze]

The issue isn't really staves that need a buff. Staff healers still remain the top healing build. And staff dot can still be quite viable in some pvp situations. So any buff that does exist must be focused on the dd aspect obviously to not make the other two op pvp.

Now. Weaknesses of staff dd:
Less tempers
Less adaptability for gear switching
Less stones
The fact cnc is mostly a joke pve (it works pvp. Despite what whiners say. After all. Staff dot is landing dots somehow.)
3 less uptier procs
Less dps cuz no double casting


Staff dd strengtghs:
They don't need nearly as much mre. Which gives them a ton of stats for build options. But this is negated by the fact they need 800 cnc like dotters AND 500+ int. To reach their fearsome magic stats they often have to sacrifice more viable armor like say hit chance arms in favor of Raidens (unlike staff dotters who have all useful armor pieces to tier)

Slightly less chance to be blocked and thus deflected.

Besides these two things... Are there any real substantial perks to staff dd? Str staff dd is still one of the best builds at instakill farming dmv or something. But that's mostly a joke these days.

Even if you rework cnc so it isn't such a joke (and this would just buff staff dotters)
Dders would still have a bunch of other glaring weaknesses. Ultimately. All their weaknesses can be addressed through spellbooks like already stated.
More tempers.
More adaptability via gear options.
More stones.
More uptier pros. Potentially more double casting
Potentially hit chance procs to make up for useless cnc.

If this did get implemented though. Please don't make them stupidly op so all of dcdd just reroll to staff dd so in 3 months we have buff dcdd threads qq

Dcdd should still have the edge on thinks like tanking (being able to use shields) and such ofc. But the goal should be to make staff dd similar to other builds not op. (on an off note it can be weaker than dcdd entirely. Not every build should be top tier. It should just be good enough to be an actual option. Rather than a joke.

[Blaze]

While we are here talking about underpowered builds. There is a build probably even rather than staff dd in nod these days. Pure archers. Now. 90% of nod. Is an archer. Flat out. Tank archers. Dcdd archers. Dcdot archers. The odd healing archer. Bm archers.

Basically if you go pure archer you're throwing away all these hybrid options. I don't have a real suggestion currently for how to make pure archers viable so everyone isn't just going hybrid. But this really should be looked into.

[Joanna]

Agree with Blaze .

As for cnc we were doing lots of testing and cnc above 350-400 does not improve your chance to land DD.

Tests for 350 400 450 500 550 600 ...850 done in fungi shows same resist ratio in around 50%

That would suggest a hard cap similar to cnt before fix

[Glitchless]

Great info in this thread.

[Tsutsu]

I run hit chance on a staff dder, it works just fine. stats are fine... I dont understand why i'm the only one that utilizes hit chance staff and sleeves. It makes a huge difference you don't need the 800 cnc if you run it.

[Freakymagic]

Originally Posted by Blaze

The fact cnc is mostly a joke pve (it works pvp. Despite what whiners say. After all. Staff dot is landing dots somehow.)

Thats slight over statement. If the dot lands it does normal dmg, if the dd manages to land it can still do 1 dmg. Doters have it far easier then dders when fighting high cnt in pvp.

Tons of people complain how bad dders are. They can still perform well in 3v3 arena (staff imo has a easier time in high end pvp over dbl dder simply due to maintaining mana in extended fights) and in pve... noone uses hit chance with staff, everyone goes for stats and maybe some crit or ds legs.

Even on top of that not like its an issue only being able to farm low end. Staff dders are fine on gob boss which is in general the best place to farm gold (even as 1 of the highest teired dbl doters thats my main farm spot).