Samurai Bow

[Huggles]

I know you said you won't directly nerf LG weapons, but this is stupid. It's a single item counter to all DW melee. Put on a T1 Samurai Bow and your opponent is taking between 75 and 125% of the damage they deal back to themselves.

Saying 'just use 2H' is silly because it ignores the fact that an entire class of builds is completely hard countered by a single item. Even the strongest DW melee user, Blackpanther, gets shut down by Samurai and had to pick up a 2H crusher.

If that's balance, I want a single weapon that makes it impossible to be DcDot, but it's balanced because they can change their build to DcDD instead.

Maybe something like: every time you have a damage over time effect applied to you, your enemy target takes curse damage equal to half of your current pending dot damage.

Here's me fighting Goreath, where his T1 bow is reflecting back over 50% of the damage I deal, plus the damage from his helm.



Strange game. The only winning move is not to attack.

[Lakki]

Debrainer has 19 min damage, and Tomahammer has what, 21? you are using weapons that have the potential to hit like a wet noodle deep into bonus. Instead of trying to incapacitate lock him, you should have some harder hitting weapons in your arsenal. With a build like that, he is trying to kill soft hitting, fast attackers. In particular, machine-gun archers like Rinku, or a machine, gun melee. in your case, a soft hitting, incapacitate locking melee.

Use a cudgel of Solar fury, or some hard hitting 2h deep in bonus, that is what 2h's are good for is deep bonus. Weighted steel too.

If you don't have any hard hitting 2h's, perhaps you have hard hitting 1h's with good min damage? which people often scold is horrible, but min damage on a tanky toon adds up. You would probably have an easier time with slashers, or piercers, because their damage is more consistent, and doesn't have minimum damage like a wet noodle , just my thoughts tho

[Lakki]

2h is most Ideal, so it sounds to me like you just need to buy a 2h, and hope for the best

[ShadeDaScout]

miticrush, solar or gtfo :U

[Lakki]

Originally Posted by ShadeDaScout

miticrush, solar or gtfo :U

pvp is expensive, gotta have as many counter-pick options as you can. those two items you listed are good but have faults too, if you fight another regener with those two weapons, you may find yourself being out-regened if you don't have a blighted one.

Options in PVP should be diverse, and so should weapon choice.

[Freakymagic]

I would agree that the samurai bow is to strong. But this day and age of nod if you only have 1x weapon set then you need to add so you can swap and use different options as needed. Same as you now need multiple pet sets to be competitive, you need multiple weapons. Weighted 2 handers dont have much issue with samurai bow, yes its not your build or setup, but you have to adapt to counter the opponents.

[ShadeDaScout]

and quickly switch between timmies and lorises with maxed stalking to prevent it even moar

[Huggles]

I have multiple weapon setups, but most of them are still DW (crush+shield, DW crush, and 2x crush/whip). I also have a 2H but didn't happen to use it in that fight.

If I don't draw weighted, I die. If weighted gets shattered, I die. If I don't draw imperv to protect my energy, I die. If I put weighted/sacri into play at a bad time, weighted will never have energy to upkeep, and I die.

Samurai bow is a hard counter to DW melee. Weighted is a very soft counter to Samurai.

Hard counters make for boring strategy.

Rule of Law is a soft counter- it creates a single limit on Sacri, so you can now drain your enemy and cause their regen to fail. They may also just run out due to low MRe/PRe. It creates an interesting fight because it's very dynamic with shattering different gems, switching runesets/gem pouches to get drains, etc. Imagine if instead it simply negated the effects of all regen-boosting gems while in play. That'd be a hard counter and it would be idiotic.

A single item should never completely shut down a build- things should work in conjunction with each other to work against other things.

[Glitchless]

Originally Posted by Huggles

Rule of Law is a soft counter...It creates an interesting fight because it's very dynamic with shattering different gems, switching runesets/gem pouches to get drains, etc.

Originally Posted by Huggles

Samurai Bow is a soft counter...It creates an interesting fight because it's very dynamic with shattering different gems, switching weapon sets/gem pouches to not hit so damn fast, etc.

I'm glad you like it. It's damage scales up nicely with uptiers, too, btw.

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

I'm glad you like it. It's damage scales up nicely with uptiers, too, btw.

Help I tried shattering the bow but I couldn't find the button to do it.

Seriously, if the best DW Melee in the game dropping DW melee against anyone with just a samurai bow (let alone armour) isn't proof that it's a hard counter to DW melee, I don't know what is.

[Demons]

use weighted!

[Glitchless]

Originally Posted by Huggles

Help I tried shattering the bow but I couldn't find the button to do it.

Seriously, if the best DW Melee in the game dropping DW melee against anyone with just a samurai bow (let alone armour) isn't proof that it's a hard counter to DW melee, I don't know what is.

The shatter button for samurai is your hotkey for swapping out a 2 hander. How is swapping runes sets and gem pouches "dynamic" but swapping weapons isn't?

It's not a hard counter to a build, it's a decent defense against a particular type of weapon pairing which is easily swappable without even needing to consume the space of an extra pouch or suit. There's a big difference.

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

The shatter button for samurai is your hotkey for swapping out a 2 hander. How is swapping runes sets and gem pouches "dynamic" but swapping weapons isn't?

It's not a hard counter to a build, it's a decent defense against a particular type of weapon pairing which is easily swappable without even needing to consume the space of an extra pouch or suit. There's a big difference.

And what if you're a BM using anything but koks? Even weighted isn't enough. You pretty much have to stop attacking, in which case you might as well be using koks anyhow.

I can see your point though. I just want DW to be viable, rather than just the idea of melee in general.

[Glitchless]

Originally Posted by Huggles

And what if you're a BM using anything but koks? Even weighted isn't enough. You pretty much have to stop attacking, in which case you might as well be using koks anyhow.

It does seem a bit harsh/hard toward non-KoK BMs which is a type of player we'd like to see more of. A skilll or item to soften the impact in that case (and potentially for DW in general, not sure) would be a potential change rather than an outright nerf to the bow which is already weak vs most other things.

[Tsutsu]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

It does seem a bit harsh/hard toward non-KoK BMs which is a type of player we'd like to see more of. A skilll or item to soften the impact in that case (and potentially for DW in general, not sure) would be a potential change rather than an outright nerf to the bow which is already weak vs most other things.

Even with that change you still won't see BM's using anything other than Koks.

[Raidens]

Originally Posted by Ideaman

Even with that change you still won't see BM's using anything other than Koks.

+1

koks are the only whip worth uptiering or even using as a BM. so not even worth trying to change anything.

i'd lolly if we get a new whip now for arena end.

[Joanna]

Originally Posted by Raidens

+1

koks are the only whip worth uptiering or even using as a BM. so not even worth trying to change anything.

i'd lolly if we get a new whip now for arena end.

A whip that daze/temporary control enemy pets causing them to attack their owner.

Or a whip that transfer x% of enemy pets to your own weakening enemy pets dps and making your stronger...

A similar formula could be use in pve where % of creatures dps is drained and granted to your pet.
Stronger the opponent more buff you get...

There is plenty of interesting alternatives to kok. ..all it takes is to take effort to design one ...

[Lakki]

it's been spoken about in countless discussions that Helkok Instigator's presence is so strong, that Beastmaster's refuse to use other whips?

So what do you do? buff the other whips? make skills to make the other whips viable?


I've never personally seen a legendary item nerfed, and i don't think we will see a direct nerf to the item, but if thats the case the other whips would be hyper buffed? If it does get nerfed, a lot of toons would be upset about it for sure.

the easiest option is to slightly nerf it, but it doesn't seem like an option. a bit clueless right now . the weapon is literally breaking an entire class.

As far as samurai bow goes, it isn't too hard to counter, but maybe could make temperance work for samurai bloodlets in pvp? dunno.

[Algamisu]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

It does seem a bit harsh/hard toward non-KoK BMs which is a type of player we'd like to see more of. A skilll or item to soften the impact in that case (and potentially for DW in general, not sure) would be a potential change rather than an outright nerf to the bow which is already weak vs most other things.

Samurai bow isn't a weak bow by any means. It's good vs almost anything and basically only other viable option for melees is thraki. I'm fairly sure the only situation in which samurai bow doesn't perform better than thraki is a 2h or staff user user and even then it helps a lot as pets keep on attacking.

I've used samurai bow myself all season long, haven't once switched to any other bow and I'll most likely finish as #1 with the best w/l. It of course isn't the only reason why that happened but it certainly did its part.

[ecnod]

But alga yu op