Mana & Energy suggestion

[Brau]

Hello,

Please adjust the theft and drain runes to drain mana / energy only if the recipient has enough "storage", draining a maximum of how much one can store in their mana / energy bars.

Why ?
PVE: high end farming done by some individuals ensures that only AGI based tanking is necessary after first several hits that empties the mobs, afterwards the they can go afk because mobs regen of mana / energy is not enough to enable them casting DD gems. As an archer, vengeful skill will be triggered more times if the mobs will cast DDs, similar for block -> reflect of the DD.

PVP: in a few seconds, some toons are disabling their opponents auras or ability to cast something very easily. I'm not against drains/theft, in order to drain, the drainer should be actively casting gems to make sure that they are having "space" to drain more.

This mechanic will change a bit how people play the arena and for sure will make it harder to kill in high end PVE.


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:TLDR version:
Stop drain energy / mana (and waste it) if one does not have space to store it in bars.

[Brau]

Additionally, energy and mana which comes from additional sources like: replenish gems or dividends, should exceed the mana / energy bars but only during the fight

[Tsutsu]

[Dawl]

No support, theft and vamp only works based on % left, would cause high end boss farm for casters easier and pvp imbalance

[Brau]

Originally Posted by Dawl

No support, theft and vamp only works based on % left, would cause high end boss farm for casters easier and pvp imbalance

It will make it harder to tank the bosses and in the same time, it will give a more stable income of mana / energy for casters.
PVP will change for sure, casters will become more stable without high amounts of regen stats and their opponents will be able to counter them with active gems or keep their auras longer.

It is the right thing to do, consider this a fix because it doesn't make sense drain and waste the mana / energy.

On top of that, it will help in collaborative farming (more toons in the same square).

[SilverLink]

no support

[Brau]

@Glitchless

Is it okay to have this exploitable mechanic ?

• Imagine a scenario where there are 3 similar characters fighting in the same square, high end mobs / boss.

• I will start the fight with one of them, after 2 seconds bring in the second one to fight, similar with the 3rd. This will ensure that each 2 seconds my characters will hit denying the boss to regen enough of his mana / energy in order to cast any gems after let's say first 10 seconds.

• Those 3 toons will have 500-600 AGI each, all of them will taunt the boss to ensure that the melee based attacks are spread in the entire team while having some HP vamps (quiver/pets/rune) to regenerate HP.

• After making this setup which will take up to 20 seconds to require my attention, i will leave the characters afk for the remaining 3-4 minutes of the fight and get back only to collect loots or open the chest.

This scenario works in groups of 2, in 3 this will work like a charm denying bosses to even cast a daze / mess / stun.

Please fix this because it's used already unfairly by multiple high end capable killers even in solo mode.

[Glitchless]

Currently that's just how the game works. It'd be interesting to see if there was support for a nerf like this, but it's not likely. We are interested in a way to increase the importance of mental and physical stamina, however, since they are underutilized compared to other stats.

[NoRemorse]

Any caster or caster type will drain the mobs , yet with 490+ mre and a staff i hardly ever run out of mana except in arena/PvP. For dc DD it is a different story, they do not have the benefits of the high mre a staff gives so they have to have more mre which seems fair as they do insane damage with their bows and a lot of double casts hence draining the mob/player faster with little to stats (dex) to hit with their bow and they still hit quite often with their bows due procs

aka > not needed , no support

[Brau]

I don't see this as a nerf, i see it as a correction of a faulty mechanic.
In pve it won't be a nerf as long as the toon who drains mana / energy will actively consume it to make sure he can drain more (use some high end healing gems or high rank taunt gems to waste it).
In PVP ... this is a game changer and i think it will be a successful one once all the people adapt to this mechanic.
This game is too monotone:

• physical damage builds are just doing auto-attack and pulling prevents (imagine if they would cast some blue gems: stun, mez, blue gems that are doing full damage without the need of INT)

• casters are just pressing 111111111111111111, most of the time, drain all energy / mana from their opponents and relax

In the future you could add for example 2 more legendary skills that would increase the mana/energy bars by 50% and could preserve up to let's say 20% of mana / energy from being drained.

PS: maybe deft finality skill won't be used only by healers and damage or healing gems not only by staff users or crazy MRE setups.

[ecnod]

Lately people been asking for too much .
No support

[NoRemorse]

Originally Posted by Brau

I don't see this as a nerf, i see it as a correction of a faulty mechanic.
In pve it won't be a nerf as long as the toon who drains mana / energy will actively consume it to make sure he can drain more (use some high end healing gems or high rank taunt gems to waste it).
In PVP ... this is a game changer and i think it will be a successful one once all the people adapt to this mechanic.
This game is too monotone:

• physical damage builds are just doing auto-attack and pulling prevents (imagine if they would cast some blue gems: stun, mez, blue gems that are doing full damage without the need of INT)

• casters are just pressing 111111111111111111, most of the time, drain all energy / mana from their opponents and relax

In the future you could add for example 2 more legendary skills that would increase the mana/energy bars by 50% and could preserve up to let's say 20% of mana / energy from being drained.

PS: maybe deft finality skill won't be used only by healers and damage or healing gems not only by staff users or crazy MRE setups.

casters do not just press 1 1 1 1 1 11111111 , build a caster for pvp or solo higher end pve (staff caster that is ) and pm me in game, i would love to explain how this is NOT true. Deft finality is the only good defense casters have as they are lacking any other defense against melee/ranged and dots. Cnt will work to some degree but you need str as well , if you want to farm high end you can not afford to have str due your magic or defense or mre/reg going too low

[Brau]

Originally Posted by NoRemorse

casters do not just press 1 1 1 1 1 11111111 , build a caster for pvp or solo higher end pve (staff caster that is ) and pm me in game, i would love to explain how this is NOT true. Deft finality is the only good defense casters have as they are lacking any other defense against melee/ranged and dots. Cnt will work to some degree but you need str as well , if you want to farm high end you can not afford to have str due your magic or defense or mre/reg going too low

This whole thread was created in order to give another way of doing pve / pvp for casters and to disallow afk farming due to denial of boss DDs.
Imagine that you don't need at all mre (or a very small amount of points in it) for continuously casting gems !!!
Have a good enough mana / energy capacity: 3000+ and you will cast continuously gems with no regen runes because your PVE opponent will give you just enough mana to you to cast those gems continuously without wasting it.

RIP this post !

[Blaze]

Well. This thread is a bit long and dull so I mostly just skimmed it but, if I understand correctly.

DD caster has 1000/1005 mana. DD hits. Drains 5 mana and no more?


This is kinda...stupid....no?

I cast a dd. DCDD in particular. It lands. I have 6% theft from rune only. A DD costs (well it varies on the DD but for DCDD if you build your pouch properly) the lowest costing DD will take 316 mana after skills that lower it. 5500 crit will get you 330 mana at this point. (now setting aside the fact that's with like a t4 ds bp and fateseal arrow. and with a r20 lavaburst with r9 flame call out) most of your dds obviously won't hit that high. DD hits right after it's cast. I don't know about staff casters as much but.. I can say that I never have full mana as DCDD especially after I cast a gem..which is when theft applies. DCDD typically is on the lower end of the mana bar. =p


PvP wise... I think there is a gem...it's called... Impervious? I believe it exists for a reason? Maybe so non-casters can upkeep gems vs enemies who theft? What a stupid gem. Let's just change stuff so we don't need it.

Again.. Perhaps staff users this may affect a bit, but for double casters... This is a kinda stupid patch =/


and any decent dcdd will drain the enemy mob and still won't be full mana/energy so argument for high end afking is void.

[Brau]

Originally Posted by Blaze

DD caster has 1000/1005 mana. DD hits. Drains 5 mana and no more?

This is kinda...stupid....no?

Why this is stupid ? the fact that you drain more than you can store is stupid.

Imagine this scenario:
Boss which has 3000 mana and energy and whom restores around 50 mana per second.
Your example: DC DD, you have 1200 mana and you restore 100 per second.
Average cost for your gems is 300 which drains 250 mana back, please keep in mind that you are DC DD, you may cast once and drain twice and in between casts you shoot with arrows which are also draining mana and shooting arrows do not cost you mana.

Image link

Please analyze the sheet above:
Green: you drain as much as you can store
Orange: mana is wasted because you cannot store it
Red: you don't drain because the boss is empty

What if you could use your target mana / energy more efficiently ? you could extend the number of gem casts until the boss is empty thus needing less MRE for recovery.

It seems that only Glitchless really understood my suggestion, thank you Jeff for taking the time and analyze my suggestion.

[Blaze]

Originally Posted by Brau

Why this is stupid ? the fact that you drain more than you can store is stupid.

Imagine this scenario:
Boss which has 3000 mana and energy and whom restores around 50 mana per second.
Your example: DC DD, you have 1200 mana and you restore 100 per second.
Average cost for your gems is 300 which drains 250 mana back, please keep in mind that you are DC DD, you may cast once and drain twice and in between casts you shoot with arrows which are also draining mana and shooting arrows do not cost you mana.

Image link

Please analyze the sheet above:
Green: you drain as much as you can store
Orange: mana is wasted because you cannot store it
Red: you don't drain because the boss is empty

What if you could use your target mana / energy more efficiently ? you could extend the number of gem casts until the boss is empty thus needing less MRE for recovery.

It seems that only Glitchless really understood my suggestion, thank you Jeff for taking the time and analyze my suggestion.

I took time to read it fully this time. this will indeed have some interesting effects then.

at the start of the fight will be the "crucial" change.

I did a quick fight just to see.

thefts / Boss drained
39 39
43 43
122 122
131 131
135
144 144
28 28
257 257
94 167

so it's here that the boss is drained.


and here is a list of my mana wasted.
mana wasted at the 39 (bow)
43. crappy gem. mana dropped so this wasn't wasted.
back at full mana.
mana drops to 919 in time for the 122/131 thefts (double cast). that'd be 11 waste.
mana drops to 927 for the 135 & 144. (45 waste)
+28 bow happened here. wasted.
mana drops to 774 here. 257/94 has no waste. mob is now drained at 0 mana.

max mana is 1161 fyi.

we wasted 39+11+28+45 mana. 123 mana.

from this point on in the fight mana is never full again so no more ever goes to waste until boss dies.

now. I only recorded 1 fight since i'm lazy. but. even if you want to say it'll vary fight to fight...I can assure you. it will. but not enough to ever freaking matter.


I cba to upload video and post. so you don't need to believe me but. 123 mana wasted on gs boss. perhaps higher bosses have more mana (not confirmed but could be possible). in which case more waste /may/ happen.

but for normal farmers... how many farm over redwood? and redwood's 6 levels isn't gonna add much for mana.

I'm calling it a stupid patch because of how pointless it is. 123 mana. yes. that is 123 mana. it would be useful yes. I don't deny that extra mana is good. but it's not really game changing. It's 1 tick. so who cares. no one can drain a mob to the point that it won't cast daze/mez/stun already. mobs get 30 mana/energy every second and we drain at best every 1.5 seconds. so they always have windows to cast them (costing 20 mana/energy by design no doubt) but even with the change... bosses will still NEVER have a chance to cast dds or apocs. #pointless. it won't make anything harder. I'm one of the few people who did kill the 142 heroic boss. and yes we drained it. but I assure you me and redeye were always basically at 0 mana. we were waiting on mana recovery more than the recast dds time to end =p


and I don't support the change to pvp at all cuz of impervious. understand my point now?

[Brau]

Please ignore, my original problem is resolved
I will keep exploiting this.

[Brau]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

Currently that's just how the game works. It'd be interesting to see if there was support for a nerf like this, but it's not likely. We are interested in a way to increase the importance of mental and physical stamina, however, since they are underutilized compared to other stats.

Thank you for reacting to this problem and for enabling other ways to perform casting of gems.
Now, since high amount of mana / nrgy is an option for casters (especially dotters), please revise the utility gems. Once per draw gems seems to be good enough (maybe 30% boost) but the following gems are totally under scaled for usage:

• Balance: please increase the flat value (considerable increase: 200-250%) or transform the balance gem to perform transfers based on percentage.
• Continuously restoring gems of mana/energy: transform them so that these are working based on % instead of flat value and change Eternity skill to work with PST and MST instead of MRE and PRE.

Thank you!

[Tsutsu]

Originally Posted by Brau

Please ignore, my original problem is resolved
I will keep exploiting this.

How on earth were you exploiting anything? Lmao.

[Tsutsu]

Originally Posted by Brau

Thank you for reacting to this problem and for enabling other ways to perform casting of gems.
Now, since high amount of mana / nrgy is an option for casters (especially dotters), please revise the utility gems. Once per draw gems seems to be good enough (maybe 30% boost) but the following gems are totally under scaled for usage:

• Balance: please increase the flat value (considerable increase: 200-250%) or transform the balance gem to perform transfers based on percentage.
• Continuously restoring gems of mana/energy: transform them so that these are working based on % instead of flat value and change Eternity skill to work with PST and MST instead of MRE and PRE.

Thank you!

To make double casters even stronger? Yep, they totally need buffs.