not to be the bad guy but.. nah actually.. being the bad guy is the goal

[Soxson]

@Joanna That's not Kingzs, that's Balzenub. Blaze, Ipoophard and Alastrina.


And also, everyone stfu. Glitch has made his decision, all this argument is irrelevant.

[Nnoor]

Math :

500 to 1000 a day... every day.... lets shoot low end of 500

1 Spiderfruit Dye (T12) = 2x berries = 1000 t12 berries (500dyes)
1 Imperial Cloth (T12) = 4x silk 2x berries (1x dye) = 2000 t12 silk, 1000 t12 berries (500 cloths)
2 Amber Dust (T12) = 1000 t2 dusts
1 Coral Geode (T12) = 3x ore = 1500 t12 ore (500 geodes)
7 Citrine Geode (T1) = 3x ore = 10500 t1 ore (3500 geodes)
1 Sweet Pea Oil (T10) = 2x veggie 1x fish = 1000 t10 veggies 500 any tier fish (500 oils)
7 Eggplant Oil (T1) = 10500 t1 veggie 5250 fish any tier. (3500 oil)

You can farm all of that in a day AND craft them I am stupidly impressed with how much time you invest in farming or you purchased/made a fantastic bot.

Can you use AH for mats/down tier? yes, but that is a lot of work and mats to do 500... Idk about these 500-1000 a day person claims and 7m fresh gold daily...

Was it inflating the economy/ the amount being made too much? Sure, how much though... who knows I highly doubt your claims of 7m daily are accurate as that would mean billions since dusting came out.
I maybe once a week at most saw a stack of 105 ders in a store maybe on a choice week 210 - once again still substantial but not 7m daily nor 500-1000 per toon per day.

Tcs awarded and no patch notes, lets just say.... interesting.

[Glitchless]

Originally Posted by Nnoor

Tcs awarded and no patch notes, lets just say.... interesting.

Patch notes: http://forums.nodiatis.com/forums/sh...d.php_p=187955

[Joanna]

I

Originally Posted by Nnoor

Math :

500 to 1000 a day... every day.... lets shoot low end of 500

1 Spiderfruit Dye (T12) = 2x berries = 1000 t12 berries (500dyes)
1 Imperial Cloth (T12) = 4x silk 2x berries (1x dye) = 2000 t12 silk, 1000 t12 berries (500 cloths)
2 Amber Dust (T12) = 1000 t2 dusts
1 Coral Geode (T12) = 3x ore = 1500 t12 ore (500 geodes)
7 Citrine Geode (T1) = 3x ore = 10500 t1 ore (3500 geodes)
1 Sweet Pea Oil (T10) = 2x veggie 1x fish = 1000 t10 veggies 500 any tier fish (500 oils)
7 Eggplant Oil (T1) = 10500 t1 veggie 5250 fish any tier. (3500 oil)

You can farm all of that in a day AND craft them I am stupidly impressed with how much time you invest in farming or you purchased/made a fantastic bot.

Can you use AH for mats/down tier? yes, but that is a lot of work and mats to do 500... Idk about these 500-1000 a day person claims and 7m fresh gold daily...

Was it inflating the economy/ the amount being made too much? Sure, how much though... who knows I highly doubt your claims of 7m daily are accurate as that would mean billions since dusting came out.
I maybe once a week at most saw a stack of 105 ders in a store maybe on a choice week 210 - once again still substantial but not 7m daily nor 500-1000 per toon per day.

Tcs awarded and no patch notes, lets just say.... interesting.

^ this guy have a point

If only 1 guy do it daily it would wipe ah clean no time then 10 TCs or so need to be burned to resource all of those mats.

An time od doing of all that is ridiculous.

IMO exploit not though really through...there is always 2 sides of coin

Edit: as for lowbie trying to do it: imagine person with 20-30 stacking and 10-15 free storage spaces.....if you can't make alt and try it. It's extremely painful experience

[Davross]

This issue came up almost exactly a year ago when some players expressed concerns. This was my response to it (have bumped the original subject)

"Glitch you once said that crafting was a labor of love, this is a prime example of that love. This represents an opportunity for lower level players to actually make some gold. Not much, but something. I too was incredibly disappointed that crafting in this game provided no money at all for crafters. Sure you can find epic stuff and try and sell to other players, but there really isn't much of a market there. Everything costs more to make from getting all the stuff yourself, than what you make back (kinda weird). So your only option if your looking for an income stream is sell to store. Ive found nothing except der gems out there that do this. I guess there are others, but I haven't found any. I understand that there is a need to protect the economy from in-game gold generated without expending RRT, but I believe this is not a problem. So far Ive seen concerns about people cashing in buying cheap resources and making these gems for a profit. Personally I'm not interested in that. I have faith that the market will adjust accordingly. If I get 12 t12 dust and I put them on the market and they sell for 1k really quick, I'm going to put them on for 2k next time. If it happens again, the price keeps going up. So the issue here is those little crafters out there toiling away (laboring away) to make 25k profit on a gem.

I decided to see how much money I could actually make. I'm so sick of destroying or uptiering low tier resources, it is all really just waste. Ive found resourcing pretty unsatisfying because I'm not actually doing anything with the stuff I find. I resource, uptier to t25 and above, turn into the next gen of resource, then put it on the market. These gems seemed like a good use of all those t1-t12 resources. So I made a few, took me hours and hours to make a few. Let me show you why:

1 spider fruit dye: Need 2 t12 plants that need to be crushed.
1 Imperial Cloth: Need 4 t12 silks turned into thread, then thread combined with another t12 dye
2 Amber Dusts: (farmed)

There is the Consumable (thankfully actually had a master so didn't need to acquire that)

1 Coral Geode: 3 t12 ores that need to be made into geode
7 Citrine Geode: 21 t1 ores that need to be made into geodes
1 Sweetpea Oil: 2 t10 Vegs that need to be combined into oil using a fish
7 Eggplant oil: 14 t1 Veg that need to be combined into oil using 7 fish
12 Afar Resins (4,180) each (most likely got to go walk for that unless your based in Altimus)
19 Galatai Blood Resins (140) each.

So you see there is alot of work there (sure you can downtier from higher resources, but that in itself takes considerable time).

So I say leave it as it is, if someone is desperate enough or in my case, looking for a little more satisfaction from resourcing, I say go for it. And for all those people worried it will crash economy, just look at chat at the people that post their 500k+GRs they get. They get that from just killing a mob or boss. I'm not having a go at those players ofc, they worked hard, built their toon and spent millions on gear, but let's keep it in perspective. These gems are not for those toons, they can make more in an hour than what someone doing this will make in days. Personally I would like to see ALL store items have a profit margin in them. Perhaps 5/6 the resale value in resins. It really does seem a little silly to actually lose money when you provide all the mats. I understand it is based on the idea that supply and demand with the playerbase would make it appealing, but I don't think that really works. Anyways, just my input into the potential issue, I am all for leaving them at the price they are.

Personally I found turning my resources into something I just made, then selling to the store (with option of putting on AH) far more rewarding than just uptiering/destroying or selling on the AH."


now something important changed. The auto loader sped things up when it came to producing these gems. I fully expected a nerf of some kind. I have to say I am dissapointed that you destroyed an alternative income stream opportunity for lower level players here rather than knocking a little off the profit. I admit I made these gems, which I pretty much explained why, a year ago. It gave the game more diversity, more choices, more alternatives to the mundane grind. It gave me an excuse to actually dust collect and garden. I point out those 2 because the real cost of those minigames far outweight the gains.

Making these gems took a long time, but the rewards were producing something rather than just destroying those mats. Im not whinning about the change, it really doesnt affect me since I can just use my alts and boss farm away, even in tm its easy to make a ton of gold. The issue (and my original defense of profit for crafting) was more about retaining new players and catering for different types of players. I believe this is a loss for Nod and makes crafting not an option for income.

[Glitchless]

The only reason crafting the same gem over and over again and selling it to the store was fun was because it felt exploitative and was. The only way crafting is meant to ever cause profit is when selling items to other players, i.e. providing an actual service with your crafting. The store doesn't need any more dereniums, and low level players weren't making use of this exploit in any case, so that point is also moot.

[Davross]

Good to know exactly where you stand on crafting. Fair enough then.

[Joanna]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

The only reason crafting the same gem over and over again and selling it to the store was fun was because it felt exploitative and was. The only way crafting is meant to ever cause profit is when selling items to other players, i.e. providing an actual service with your crafting. The store doesn't need any more dereniums, and low level players weren't making use of this exploit in any case, so that point is also moot.

And..... what kind of service you have in mind ?

I'm trying to figure out the way new/low level players can be useful.

Low mats processing ? No. It's faster to downtier higher one since caps trashing tons of them.

Low lvl potions ? No. They can be bought from store cheap in bulk.

Perhaps low level epics ? You might sell one in the blue moon...

The truth is there is nothing low level can provide. Since /bossbait they cannot be use even for that ?

Rush to cap ? Sure but for some it takes months. And since main purpose of being paid is to lift trade restriction it would be good idea to actually mean it.

I would like you to give it some thoughts about introducing something useful that can only be made and low lvl can put their time and effort to provide it.


I suggested it before but will bump it again here:

Epic potions line..... why ?

1. Can only be made not store bought.
2. Has no resell value so it's not exploitable.
3. Can be crafted to sell to others (reason for lowbie to get paid to be able to sell it)
4 caps will buy it because they got bosses to kill instead wasting time on crafting.
5. It would make epic dust useful because as for now there is no market for low tiers and they got destroyed
6 will give lowbie alternative actions in game while bored grinding.
7 will encourage people to go early premium and buy grinder to be able engage in crafting.
8 overall it will help everyone and so on....



Mind to show some love to new people ?

[Soxson]

Originally Posted by Joanna

Mind to show some love to new people ?

Nodiatis is way easier for new people than it was. Quests from the start was collect 10, kill 10. No rrt when turning in quests. More likely to encounter mobs on traveler's way...

can you find other things to complain about?

[Joanna]

Soxon ? Do you think picking on others makes you cool ?

You one of those people who never read whole thing or got problems understanding meaning of it.

Yes. It's true that people who just started got something to be happy about but it last till they 10 or so. Kill speed slows down and need for new gear is great. Without upgrading your armor and weapon game is barely enjoyable. Besides nodiatis is not only kill - loot - repeat dead loop.

Diversity of what you can do makes it great. Let's don't kill it.

[Glitchless]

Originally Posted by Joanna

I suggested it before but will bump it again here:

Epic potions line..... why ?

1. Can only be made not store bought.
2. Has no resell value so it's not exploitable.
3. Can be crafted to sell to others (reason for lowbie to get paid to be able to sell it)
4 caps will buy it because they got bosses to kill instead wasting time on crafting.
5. It would make epic dust useful because as for now there is no market for low tiers and they got destroyed
6 will give lowbie alternative actions in game while bored grinding.
7 will encourage people to go early premium and buy grinder to be able engage in crafting.
8 overall it will help everyone and so on....

Epic potions is definitely a good idea. It's now been added to the list here
http://forums.nodiatis.com/forums/sh...ad.php_t=18912 and will be in consideration for the 2017 patches.

[Tharkas]

Joanna, I agree with you that this game is rather daunting to new players and that some love needs to be given to them. On the other hand, I 100% disagree with your previous requests for a sell-to-store crafting option to make profit. Nodiatis has been, and will always be a game about grinding mobs to get stronger and farm gold. Regardless of the in-game issues (toon sharing being one of the largest), the vast majority of nodders have made their fortune farming or selling TCs.

S1 has reached a point where it is next to impossible for a new player to come and get OP (with or without all upgrades) without spending money. While it is possible, it is nigh impossible with the current TC prices sitting at 1.8 million, and for the most part it seems that Glitchless is okay with this. You still need to realize that this is a business for him and that he has to make money somehow.

You should also realize that any new items that get implemented WILL be crafted by at least a few caps. Anything that a low level can do, well it can be done better by a high lvl. So how do you show some love to new players?

First off, I do believe that Glitch has been on the right track with his quest upgrades. Not only are they quicker and easier now, but they also have great rewards. Kill a few mobs, gather a few trophies, and team up to own some bosses. All of these things are quests that you are rewarded for doing. RT/RRT, passive learning experience, and gold should be more than enough. That on it's own is not enough though, and only scratches the surface of what nod is.

Something that I'd like to propose is new quests to walk people through the crafting/resourcing process. How about a quest line for doing certain resourcing tasks, collecting specific tier, or doing it an X amount of time? How about a crafting line of quests? Craft a certain item, craft x items, make some enchanting stones, or sell your crafted item to a certain store in a specific town. These would be some improvements that would really help low lvl players in the beginning and also teach them how the game works. Quest rewards could remain the same. Gold, RRT, exp (but possibly all of them scaled back a little as Glitch sees fit).

All in all, I disagree that crafting and selling to store should NOT be profitable but that some love does need to be shown. Any input from anyone else is welcome as well.

[Darklords]

Originally Posted by Tharkas

Something that I'd like to propose is new quests to walk people through the crafting/resourcing process. How about a quest line for doing certain resourcing tasks, collecting specific tier, or doing it an X amount of time? How about a crafting line of quests? Craft a certain item, craft x items, make some enchanting stones, or sell your crafted item to a certain store in a specific town. These would be some improvements that would really help low lvl players in the beginning and also teach them how the game works. Quest rewards could remain the same. Gold, RRT, exp (but possibly all of them scaled back a little as Glitch sees fit).

Id personally like this to be implemented.

[Whisp]

.

[Davross]

I like the epic potion idea as it is governed by the players rather than a set value (and potentially something that will be highly used if not too expensive). I hope it happens. Also the quest crafting/resource line would be good also.

Also I have to say to Joanna, i do appreciate your contributions. It is always a positive to explore new ideas on how the game can evolve and grow.

[FattyNoob]

aww dam, it was patched. I was hoping to stop boss farming as lolmelee and spam the gems 18 hours a day. and buy every tc/t30 resource sadpanda

[Seselis]

What can i say - shut down travel mode down and the problem is solved. Then everyone will spend RT to make something.
Oh, to add more spice - how poor younguns can sell their stuff for profit? That's a big mystery to me. Can Glitch answer to that?