Enchanter CA

[Masterarcher]

Before the new 3v3 season begins, I'm hoping we can look at enchanter CA once again for the sake of balance and diversity. As many already know, this ability stuns a primary target for 5 seconds and mesmerizes secondary targets for 10 seconds. It has been widely used by top teams in past seasons and is very rewarding when chained correctly, but on the other hand suppresses smart counterplay and the use of other class abilities, which I'd like to demonstrate in my reasoning as follows.

Suppose a team decides to use 3 enchanter abilities against opponents in arena. The first possibility for the defending team is to start the match with stoic and focused auras. However, the enchanter team can easily clear the field for the first enchanter CA with an initial apocalypse or targeted gem shatter in case the apocalypse is resisted/shattered. After the first enchanter CA goes through, one target will almost certainly be stunned for 5 seconds, and his teammates will both be mesmerized until they cleanse or take damage.

The moment the enchanter team sees a cleanse, the second enchanter ability is used, reapplying the stun to the primary target and removing the player who used cleanse from the fight for the next 10 seconds. If the defending team is foolish enough to cleanse at the same time, both secondary targets will now be out of the fight for the next 10 seconds/until taking damage. In case the defending team staggers the cleanses, the enchanter team has 2 options: enchant again, guaranteeing a complete shutdown of opposing team for 5/10/10 seconds, or simply allow one target to be free and save enchant to lock the other two down even longer. The restriction for the enchanter team is to not damage the mesmerized targets, which is simple to work around with single target burst attacks (triple DD/DoT/flesheaters on an immobilized target).

Now to address possible counterplays for the defending team.

The most effective way to combat triple enchanter is to just have a similar CA yourself (enchanter/archer) and try to disrupt the triple CA sequence. However, if the enchanter team is able to pull off the first enchanter ability, the cooldown after cleanse prevents a player from shooting back his own enchanter ability before he is immediately mesmerized by the second CA. In addition, this enforces an even more linear team comp and detracts from the diversity that makes pvp exciting.

Other possibilities to combat triple enchanter include the use of angel CA to ressurect a targeted ally or tactician CA if you happen to be focused. However, tactician CA cannot be performed under stun and angel CA is on a much longer cooldown (10 minutes with accel) compared to the 1:30 cooldown on triple enchanter CA.

I've only briefly outlined the problem I see with this ability but can explain further after input from the community. I would personally suggest reducing the secondary 10 second mesmerize effect to 3-5 seconds to preserve the uniqueness of this ability while opening up room for counterplay. It has been a long time since I've participated in 3v3 and I'm excited at all the new possibilities opened up by flesheaters, degen, new gear, and drains. I am eager to see what happens and await player input, thanks!

[SiSiX]

Flippy's gonna need a sammich to make it through all that.

[flipynifty]

I fully support new things to add onto current builds but NO MORE NERFS and NO MORE LGs THAT NERF STUFF. nerfing sucks and doesn't fix anything...

the enchanter ca is strong and I think originally it was because no one used the class or the gems associated with it. still no one really does...

perhaps if the CA is toned down a little timewise (not nerfed but toned down a notch, yes I'm an enchanter but not the for CA) and GREY gems were looked into to adjust and maybe boost to counter what would be seen as a nerf, sure... then I support.

[Enduir]

There are only 4 actual primary enchanters in top 1000 that I can see, no disrespect to any of them but they are unlikely to be top contenders this season.

An adjustment to the CA won't be a gamechanger for those guys and could easily be balanced by an improvement to the class bonus.

[flipynifty]

yes balance out CA, and maybe boost class bonus to greys? there even steven

[Blaze]

For the enchanter vs enchanter having done that (me ex brickk vs Dan Billy tro last season) I can easily say it dun matter if enemy team goes first or not as long as you play it smart. Angel counter isn't very effective. And the person is generally not stunned if they're being hit...otherwise the tank would be able to move at some point..so tact CA would work unless your luck is bad and smash or something procs.

I'd go on a bit criticizing how you say people use enchanter since...there are more effective ways than what you described...but I don't feel like giving everyone ideas.

As for burst damage dot has outbreak. One outbreak everyone's mezzes wear off (sure you can say people can delevel but considering how many matches it's helped out immensely screw the occasional time it hurts the team). Single target dd removes this issue tho but can be countered via miti/cnt (yeah yeah enchanter can be used late match so figure out a damn way to kill them before that)
Fleshies not so much. I assume between solo arena and last season people will smarten up a bit and not rely as much on regen.

As for asking for it to be exchanged for a buff to ability (5-15% boost to grey magic) I don't support that. It's an OP ability as it is. There are a lot of useful grey gems. And other classes would whine they sit at 5-15% while their ability sucked always. Idr warlock bonuses but god. Have you seen how lame 211 heal/damage is?

I agree it can be an OP CA tho. It's probably the best 3v3 CA. Tact is annoying but you can kill them after. Angel can be game changing...very rarely..but generally for high end arena whenever someone gets Angeled they instadie after (from what I've seen. Haven't really used so maybe some angel could argue that it does actually help in some high end fights. *shrug*)

It might be OP but so is degen arrow &/or fleshies. Or a healer vs a dotter. Or the stun/mez gem pouch in 1v1 arena <.< or fda vs aoe dd. (Or 2 suits j/s) etc etc.

Tl;dr: it's a bit OP so I wouldn't complain if it was toned down like fliffy said (perhaps just remove the mez altogether so it's similar Archer CA or lower time a bit like fliffy said or w/e.) But it can be countered somewhat so idc if it doesn't get changed at all either.

[paulodjohn]

If done right a triple enchanter CA has the ability of making the fight a very short and one sided one. Drain them while the opposing team is messed/stunned, even if the CA wears off once they are drained the support can be killed off really fast without a tank taunting. once one support toon is dead the fight is basically over, and even with the new staff it will not stop drains since people can be immobilized for longer than 10 seconds using triple enchanter. Most boring/broken CA available. It can let a weak team beat a strong one with ease. The winning team with be triple enchanter if it is not changed, 99% sure of that. the 1% is in case no team uses it

[Excellence]

I personally didn't have troubles with enchanter CA, though we did use it. There are ways to counter it, and Thorin was doing good job at it before drains. Billy/Daniel/Tro used same setup as us and they never got to beat us with enchanter/drains partially because we could sort of cope with drains and with enchanter ca

Can't say it's not OP or anything, but that's the thing with classes apparently. Less used classes have good CA, frequently used classes have mediocre/weaker CA. I guess if bonus (or better yet gems it affects) is increased CA can be a bit modified but I don't really see the issue with it. I think you're making it sound bigger than it actually is

[flipynifty]

H8 u

[Excellence]

Originally Posted by flipynifty

H8 u

Is it too late now to say sorry?