Fix daze

If you took even half the effort you've put into this thread (and no doubt will continue to put into this thread) and redirected it into moving your mouse faster to avoid those dazes, you might actually not suck at this game.

Originally Posted by Style

you can both block and parry your own attacks i have seen it done on multiple occasions u can also block and parry your friendly targets dazed attacks

i'm an archer and my dps tends to be higher then a dual wielder and the only way i could be doing more dmg at my current lvl is with an epic bow and arrow set... my point in the end is simple even when the mobs times the daze so perfectly that i cannot avoid attacking myself i can still heal through the dmg done to me and the incoming dmg from the mob itself

there are also ways to avoid becoming dazed in the first place u have auras and u have skills that give u blue gem and detrimental gem protection


quite honestly i can only think of one glass cannon build (other then avoiding leveling up the defense stat) currently in nod and thats the dual wielder although u are right in that they are more of a glass airsoft rifle...


about losing rt to daze once again i must point out i havent died to daze ever and i havent died in general in atleast 30lvls at this point and i can output the dmg and fight reds if i wish though usually its orange/yellows

i'm sure there are others out there who can deal with daze as easily as i can through healing defense and activeness

Yep relic, we soo totally called these sorts of responses.

And so.. we have to bust out the secret weapon.


That would be Everyone can block and parry Style! Even so that is still just an evasion method. Evasion /= ultimate defense. Especially when you are building your character to be able to hit things. Then this falls into the Gimping of ones character to stop you from killing ones self.

And No, just because they are a duel wield doesn't make them a glass airsoft rifle. It still depends after that, on whether or not they want to kill something besides them in the next century.

And Aura and skills stop it? No they freeking dont! Hell, the monster uses daze on me to take away the very aura that is suppose to prevent it! This also falls into the Overwhelming amount of CNC that monsters have. Cnc if you are completely unaware of it, is the opposite of Cnt and Resistance. The greater the Cnc of the monster, the lower your chances are to resist things.

Monsters also have the habit of casting daze the moment your precious aura drops to refresh, due to game limitations.


Even so, once again, As all characters can easily put a gem (if it did anything at all) in to play, regardless of what their stat build is, all builds are glass weapons. There is Nothing, absolutely nothing in the Def stats that will prevent them from being glass against physical damage. The most they can hope is to avoid the attack.

Originally Posted by Somneil

If you took even half the effort you've put into this thread (and no doubt will continue to put into this thread) and redirected it into moving your mouse faster to avoid those dazes, you might actually not suck at this game.

Apparently i need to be like you Hiro Nakamura and use glitches to combat the daze.

Originally Posted by Picho

Apparently i need to be like you Hiro Nakamura and use glitches to combat the daze.

So...did you inherit your severe hand-eye coordination deficit from your father or...mother...?

[Relic]

Well, we would keep arguing with you Somniel.
But im not really the type to play with little boys.
We know we are right, and we now now that you are mildly retarded
When it comes to using your brain a little.
That tells me one thing, you must live in your moms basement.
" Mom the internet guys are making fun of me again "

And with that, im done molesting you i mean arguing with you, Somniel.
Go ahead and post one more time, so you can get the last word in.
We dont mind.

Ok sweety, have a good day and make sure you to tell the teacher if the other kids pick on you. heres some lunch money. *Kiiiiiiissss*

Originally Posted by Somneil

So...did you inherit your severe hand-eye coordination deficit from your father or...mother...?

No, it has nothing to do with eye hand coordination but rather the fact monsters tend to cast daze a half second before i attack. Since you are capable of slowing down this time each and every time you must be Hiro Nakamura.

And by gimping your damage output does not mean that you are increasing your defense. This is because there is no defense stats that can be used.

If you attack yourself its your dex vs your other stats. The higher your dex the harder it is for you to be able to block your own attack.

And trying to say a skill like parry/block will turn you into a non-glass cannon is so much bull****. You are still made of glass, and depending on your damage output you are still a cannon.

But still you will go on saying "I haz mad haxor skillz usin my glitches foo! U shld use them 2!"

well...
daze isn´t really a very bad thing.. it IS to prevent macro, and without it, battles would be boring as hell..
about the glass cannon thing.. we all are glass cannons in this game, because there is no stat that raises your defense, and its not easy to keep buying more and more expensive armors through the game, and its get worse if you dont have a shield.
what i think.. daze should have a lesser effect, like you only hit yourself for half your strength, or that when you hit yourself you get stunned for a sec, thus preventing that you hit yourself multiple times.
what im trying to say.. stop arguing like 5 year old.

i never implied that blocking or parry would make u less of a glass it was a rebuttal to your comment about not being able to block or parry your own attacks which u can

i myself am an archer i can neither block nor parry regardless it is why i said i have seen others do so

i also dont use these auras for resistance like i said i heal through dazed attacks

i do as much if not more dmg then a dual wielder yet i dont die as easily as u guys do...



and relic my point was not that i do not die and that i am therefore great because of that, it was that i dont die and i am a dpser then u have the same chance not to die as i dont

[Hopilus]

um, i have parried my own daze hits on Hopilus.....it is possible to do. and surprisingly enough, despite the fact that i have never clicked auto attack off when dazed (usually to busy trying to get gems into play) i have never died in combat due to a daze attack. have done a double crit for 166 with forsaken though....not pleasant....perhaps, you just need to get your healing up? thats what i would suggest.

Originally Posted by Relic

Well, we would keep arguing with you Somniel.
But im not really the type to play with little boys.
We know we are right, and we now now that you are mildly retarded
When it comes to using your brain a little.
That tells me one thing, you must live in your moms basement.
" Mom the internet guys are making fun of me again "

And with that, im done molesting you i mean arguing with you, Somniel.
Go ahead and post one more time, so you can get the last word in.
We dont mind.

Ok sweety, have a good day and make sure you to tell the teacher if the other kids pick on you. heres some lunch money. *Kiiiiiiissss*

Hugging, kissing, molesting, and patronizing me in emotes are not going to help your game skills. Nor are they going to hide the fact that you can't make a point without resorting to personal attacks (that are really creepy more than anything with all the touchy-feely stuff). Makes me wonder since you really believe I am a little boy, why you are pretending to grope all over me...CREEPY!!! And illegal. Where's Chris Hanson from Dateline NBC when I need him?

I'm going to keep posting ad nauseum simply because I'm tired of snot-nosed complainers getting this game nerfed in areas where its completely fine.

I want Jeff/Glitchless to focus on new content instead of dealing with your crippled-hands issues! P.S. Pedophiles creep me out.

/ban Relic

plzthxJeff

Most of you are pretty much failing to see the larger issue here. Daze is currently a system that demonstrates this problem.


Notice how no one is really going "Omg! My Magic killz me!"

Instead they are saying "OMFG I STABBED MYSELF TO DEATH!"


What does this mean? Either A) Magic is ****ing weak as hell or B) Physical damage is ****ing strong as hell.

It was demonstrated when Veng was off going Pk. Reports suggested that he was able to do 200 points of damage a blow. Now i cannot confirm or deny this, because i never got pked by him. But think about that that. 200 points of damage per blow.


Say a level 30 has 1000 hp. This would mean Veng could kill that player in about 3 rounds. (duel wield) This means in order to compete with him, you have to some how lower that damage or increase your own. When you are dazed its you competing against yourself now. Unless you're Somneil and using glitches to remove penalties along with his hiro nakamura powers chances are you are going to hit yourself at least once, this is taking in the fact that monsters spell casting is based on what seems to be the same timer as attacking and aura recharge.

So what are the defenses against attacking yourself? Well you could increase the ever so slight chance that you might be able to parry/block. But pretty much everyone can do that, unless they are using bow and arrow religiously. But One can assume that Dex lower that chance. So the higher you're dex is, the lower your chance of avoiding your own attack.

Or you can wear armor. Course everyone wears pretty much the same armor. Not much of a difference between the armor a guardian wears and the armor a magician wears.

You can use auras, but as with attacking monsters cast often during the holes in your aura. Thus allowing them to 'steal' the aura for the next half a minute or whatever. Not to mention monsters most likely have an increasingly higher amount of CnC to deal with people increasing their magic protection stats, which results in a decrease of your skills effect.

Then there is the damage prevention auras. Which block 2 damage at level 8, then 3 or 4 damage at level 30. Mind you at level 30, you are getting hit for 200 points of damage by Veng. 200>>>>>>4

My biggest thing here is that We are all made of glass. Its just a matter of whether or not we build in some sort of attack power or choose to diddle it the pathetic existence of magic.

Interesting set of posts here. Not going to quote everything I'm going to reply to but here is what I have noticed.

Yes daze does suck and has a very, very, slight chance of getting you killed. I can only see this happen by
A) Being at low health when it happens.
B) Trishotting yourself at low health.
C) Which means that your healing is too low.
D) Fighting things too high above you for your skills.

Also do realize that daze has a 50% chance to either hit YOU or the ENEMY when affected by it. The gems that Style is speaking of are the ones that increase your % to resist a color of magic. If you haven't realized this I wouldn't be surprised in the least.

I have hit myself many times because of daze and only once did I die because of this. This was mainly due to me soloing a boss that I shouldn't have and trishotted myself. So yes it is possible, but this happened when I was around lvl 20 or so.

One thing that could help us to be able to help you is let us know how you play your character. Such as what is your Level/Stat Lvls/ Life Magic Lvls/ and your main damage lvls. Once this is established we would be capable of helping you out Relic.

EDIT*** Noticed Picho's Post
Now you are getting into PK. This appeared to start as PVE but anyway.

Veng is what level and you are what level. Let's start with that first. Compare him going up against someone his level and I bet the damage done would be different as well.

Daze is always Player verse player, because you verse yourself, A player. You are competing against your own skill when you get hit with a daze attack. Since the game is overly simplistic with 2 creatures per area, that you have to fight randomly, its pretty safe to say that every monster is exactly the same as the previous, only having increased stats all around and level.

I don't have any information on higher level people, and he has since been toasted. If perhaps we could get the mathematics behind everything we can come up with a more exact answer to what really goes one. One can only make assumptions about things based on what information he/she has. My info was verge did 200 points of damage a blow.

Originally Posted by Picho

Daze is always Player verse player, because you verse yourself, A player. You are competing against your own skill when you get hit with a daze attack. Since the game is overly simplistic with 2 creatures per area, that you have to fight randomly, its pretty safe to say that every monster is exactly the same as the previous, only having increased stats all around and level.

I don't have any information on higher level people, and he has since been toasted. If perhaps we could get the mathematics behind everything we can come up with a more exact answer to what really goes one. One can only make assumptions about things based on what information he/she has. My info was verge did 200 points of damage a blow.

Your last post, before the one quoted, talked about Vengeful.... That's PvP no matter how you slice it.

I think you are missing the all around point here. I have been killed once by daze, and that was because I shouldn't have been fighting the mob that I was fighting. Some other have been killed because of daze. You complain about the ability to have a better chance of dodge, parry,and block, That isn't needed because there are already other aspects of the game that help you chances against parry.

If you are getting killed because of daze I have no sympathy for you. I do agree it sucks and wish it wasn't in the game but it's a necessary evil. Hell you can buy the gem and use them yourself. Stats alone don't help your character as much as an overall level or an overhaul and look into your skills.

Originally Posted by Picho

Most of you are pretty much failing to see the larger issue here. Daze is currently a system that demonstrates this problem.


Notice how no one is really going "Omg! My Magic killz me!"

Instead they are saying "OMFG I STABBED MYSELF TO DEATH!"


What does this mean? Either A) Magic is ****ing weak as hell or B) Physical damage is ****ing strong as hell.

Okay, at least now you're actually trying to make some decent points that I can respond to like a civil human being.

I would say most of the time people are not hurting themselves with magic while dazed simply because its very preventable (just don't activate a spell gem). If your playstyle is to put gems in play and use them immediately then there's only a small window in which daze can interfere (after you've played the gem but before you've clicked it). It gets a bit trickier if you wait to cast them or you're dealing with recastables, though.

Either way, though, you do have a point, compared to weapon damage, magic damage is supplemental at best, though I can't comment on a comparison of end-game magic damage where spells can supposedly hit for upwards of 900 damage (skill modifiers included) because I'm not sure exactly what weapons are dps'ing at that level (skill modifiers included).

Some have expressed concerns in the past that end-game magic might be overpowered and Glitchless' only response was "guess we'll just have to wait and see."

Originally Posted by Picho

It was demonstrated when Veng was off going Pk. Reports suggested that he was able to do 200 points of damage a blow. Now i cannot confirm or deny this, because i never got pked by him. But think about that that. 200 points of damage per blow.


Say a level 30 has 1000 hp. This would mean Veng could kill that player in about 3 rounds. (duel wield) This means in order to compete with him, you have to some how lower that damage or increase your own.

I'd have to agree with Drakko here in that the level of the player fighting Venge was going to have a lot to do with how much damage they take. Since Venge was at least level 42, an example level 30 is going to get crushed no matter how much HP he has for his level. Level makes all the difference in the world and I don't have the math on why, but it does.

Originally Posted by Picho

When you are dazed its you competing against yourself now. Unless you're Somneil and using glitches to remove penalties along with his hiro nakamura powers chances are you are going to hit yourself at least once, this is taking in the fact that monsters spell casting is based on what seems to be the same timer as attacking and aura recharge.

Okay since this keeps coming up I want to address it. Am I the only person who actively tries to nullify daze? Am I? Does everyone else on this thread just sit there with their thumbs up their butt during battle and just let their character beat the crap out of itself when it gets dazed? I am having a hard time believing the argument that I, somehow, have supernatural powers and am able to get through fights without tearing my hair out, therefore there must be something wrong with daze (and me).

Again, I'm going to suggest that you actively try to combat the daze effect. At least try to turn off your auto attack. That only makes sense! If you're not attacking then you can't attack yourself! It's not a bug! The auto-attack button can be turned on and off for a reason! Here's the reason: daze! At least, Picho, concede that this is possible for a normal human being and is a reasonable strategy.

Honestly, I'm not warping the space-time continuum. If I could do that, I wouldn't be wasting my time playing this game (I'd be sending some American politicians through wormholes to burn up in the sun, for starters).

Originally Posted by Picho

My biggest thing here is that We are all made of glass. Its just a matter of whether or not we build in some sort of attack power or choose to diddle it the pathetic existence of magic.

I'll agree that I'm made of glass, I would die all the time if I didn't turn off auto-attack when I got dazed. But again its just common sense...if you're put into a state of confusion where you're going to attack randomly and the only thing you can control is if you attack or not, it only makes sense to choose not to attack.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Hopilus

um, i have parried my own daze hits on Hopilus.....it is possible to do. and surprisingly enough, despite the fact that i have never clicked auto attack off when dazed (usually to busy trying to get gems into play) i have never died in combat due to a daze attack. have done a double crit for 166 with forsaken though....not pleasant....perhaps, you just need to get your healing up? thats what i would suggest.

I think you missed something Hopilus.
Your not a melee or archer.
Dont think your suggestions belong in here, cause you dont even know what we are talking about. (staves dont count) -____-


And for Somniel, you really dont get it do you?
I was kinda thinking you really understood what we was talking about in the back of your head, dam i was wrong again.
i guess things like this, are a little to deep for children to understand.

Thing is you and evryone else here are STILL missing the point of the whole thing.

I dont care though, your stupidity aint my problem
I have tried my best to enlighten you, but your just to dumb.
i give up, you can win now.

From here on out, BEFORE you speak, Think about what your saying, and see if it makes sense to you, cause if it dont even make sense to you. then well.. it just dont make sense.

I love watching evrybodys little baby like temper-tantrums though keep it up.

And with that, im off to go do something constructive, instead of arguing with the deaf.

-Relic

I got it! Dave says it is suppose to prevent glass cannons right, and Som promotes how much he can use glitches or turn off auto attack.

When dazed, it should be like mez and stun where you cannot turn on/off auto attack. Then fix the gem glitch they seem to think they use.

that's how we should fix daze!

Originally Posted by Relic

I think you missed something Hopilus.
Your not a melee or archer.
Dont think your suggestions belong in here, cause you dont even know what we are talking about. (staves dont count) -____-


And for Somniel, you really dont get it do you?
I was kinda thinking you really understood what we was talking about in the back of your head, dam i was wrong again.
i guess things like this, are a little to deep for children to understand.

Thing is you and evryone else here are STILL missing the point of the whole thing.

I dont care though, your stupidity aint my problem
I have tried my best to enlighten you, but your just to dumb.
i give up, you can win now.

From here on out, BEFORE you speak, Think about what your saying, and see if it makes sense to you, cause if it dont even make sense to you. then well.. it just dont make sense.

I love watching evrybodys little baby like temper-tantrums though keep it up.

And with that, im off to go do something constructive, instead of arguing with the deaf.

-Relic

Staves don't count.... ok. How about my warrior has blocked and parried many a times her own and archer attacks.

What are you talking about other than get rid of daze (or fix) so I don't kill myself...

I want to help you but since you still haven't given me any information that I requested I can't help you. At this point I think you are on your own. Until I get that information from you then we can move forward. Until then go do something constructive.

FIX Daze, or at least lower the rate of drawing this gem, only for monsters!

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Drakko

Staves don't count.... ok. How about my warrior has blocked and parried many a times her own and archer attacks.

What are you talking about other than get rid of daze (or fix) so I don't kill myself...

I want to help you but since you still haven't given me any information that I requested I can't help you. At this point I think you are on your own. Until I get that information from you then we can move forward. Until then go do something constructive.

Wowww... seriously, your slow mindedness, totally lost what we was talking about.. Amazing. So.. your warrior blocks and parry's.. thats cool, maybe your the first to learn these skills? are they a 60+ skill?

What we were really talking about was, if your not a melee/ranged attacker.
you dont have 3-4x strikes in one attack, with damages exceeding 200+
A stave just wont do that, therefore staves dont count. because casters dont really get affected like us, melee ranged.

So next time, before you "quote" me.
Use your head a little first
and you wont end up looking like a retard
like what just happened.

Which brings me to my next point
I dont think you should be offering to help ANYBODY with your level of stupidity, i for one especially cant use any of your help, and would never even attempt.

Evry time i hear you speak, i get stupider with evry word, keep your mumojumbo BS, out of my head. -Relic-