Arena/clan war suggestions

Dillthetank · 05-09-2012, 09:41 AM

Since even the chance at losing arena rating prevents a lot of teams queueing when other teams are on, I think that we either need to get rid of rating losses or limit it to 1/2 what the other team gains. The problem is that when you face a team who has joined the arena later in the season, or face a team that changes members on a daily basis just for farming bonus, 1 loss = 20 wins so it can often wipe out an entire days worth of gains.

The other problem is that the teams that change members daily have very high personal ratings while their team rating is extremely low. This leads them to face the higher rated teams more often, and high rated teams gain only 1 rating for beating them but lose 20. Maybe a change to remove personal rating gain as well as team rating when changing teams would alleviate this.

Another idea is basing arena rating gains on the personal ratings of the opposing players instead of the teams rating. It's retarded having 2000 rating and having to face teams with 20 rating constantly because they have higher personal ratings.

In terms of clan wars, they still unfortunately suck. 90% of NOD prefers to farm uninterupted and even a 15 minute immunity is too annoying so players either leave the clans who are warring or have to switch to civi whenever they farm. This is why none of the top clans will ever go to war and instead have their alt clans feed them instead. Why don't we have 1v1 arena thats awards dominance/territory based on wins and the ratings of opponents? Truth be told there aren't enough teams for 3v3 arena in this game anyways and it would be a fun alternative when your teamates aren't online.

Instead of awarding temper bonuses, maybe make it so that certain runes can only be used by the individual after he/she has obtained certain levels of dominance/territory. This way you are only clan battling when you want to AND it doesn't interfere with your farming the way it does now. It would also give incentive to do 1v1 arena to obtain the highest runes, maybe dom/terr could carry forward a month after it is obtained or something like that.

Feel free to comment.

Master · 05-09-2012, 10:01 AM

Good job at spending time ans giving good details! I always fail at that part... I support this.

Darkdingus · 05-09-2012, 10:22 AM

Nice with the details.
I agree, the losses far outweigh the gains as far as rating goes.

I like the idea of the 1v1 arena for terr/dom. Just make it lower than usual, so people don't lose RP by going in without being prepared.

I ESPECIALLY like the idea of a min amount of terr/dom to gain access to runes, and would make it for RP too, but there's a small flaw: it almost forbids people with alts from using runes by paying with their main, something I didn't mind.

Ballrog · 05-09-2012, 10:32 AM

Dill, just searched Glitch update threads but could not find the posting. But, i do remember Glitch addressing the rating loss issue and changing it.

When a high rated team loses to a low rated team (with high personal ratings), The high rated team no longer loses 20 rating. The loss is less than half.

In the case of the team i am on...We have lost to several low rated teams (all with high rated members) and only lost 6-7 rating. BTW, most of these teams were the same 3-5 players just switching out toons for farming as you mentioned.

Dillthetank · 05-09-2012, 10:53 AM

You might be losing only 6-7 now but we lost 15 rating to them a couple of days ago when one of my members got dc'ed and it will only get worse once your ratings go up more.

Pansy · 05-09-2012, 10:53 AM

I support the concept of 1 v 1 arena, but I think it would have to involve tempers because I believe a 1 v 1 arena would kill off the 3 v 3 arena. 3 v 3 is already so much of a hassle that I expect most players would immediately leave for the new arena where they could get fights 3x faster, and not be attacked by three players.

As far as awarding dom/ter, it's an interesting concept but I don't know how that would work with the existing rune structure. It would hard to tell people that our clan has epic runes...but you can't use them!

Also I thought personal ratings were already used for both matchmaking and rating gain/loss purposes. Maybe this has changed, but at least last season I recall fighting a new uber-team that Paul was on. They had an itty-bitty rating at the time, and when we beat them we gained only 1, but when we lost, we only lost 10 instead of the 20 I had expected. Maybe Glitchless could clarify the method used. In the end I think it all comes out in the wash, and if you play long enough your rating will go up or down to reach the level it should be.

Dillthetank · 05-09-2012, 11:41 AM

Gains definately don't rely on personal ratings because the gain against them is always only 1. Another idea might be to increase the farming bonus if you have stayed on the same arena team for more than 1 week, or increase the farming bonus slightly as your rating increases to deter teams from constantly reforming all the time as everyone would want to achieve higher ratings for better bonuses.

Darkdingus · 05-09-2012, 11:46 AM

The loss is based on personal rating.
The gain is based on arena rating.

Why this discrepancy, I don't know. But it's there.

Dillthetank · 05-09-2012, 12:17 PM

I don't think it works this way. Both rating gains and losses are based on team ratings, it's only the personal ratings that affect who you are queued against. I think that if personal ratings affect who you fight, they should also affect rating gains and losses which they currently do not to my knowledge.

paulodjohn · 05-09-2012, 01:45 PM

If you lose to a temp team you really do deserve to get a lot of rating taken from you. And if you turn to a civilian when you farm you don't deserve to farm. Picking and choosing just to please yourself sickens me. Your either fully in or fully out. Clan wars suck now because people moaned about losing rp and stuff. a risk free war will never work. change it back. Also if your face a team with individual members personal rating high but their team rating low you won't lose that much rating to them.

Dillthetank · 05-09-2012, 02:25 PM

Funny coming from a guy who runs every time I try to clan battle him.

paulodjohn · 05-10-2012, 06:13 AM

I can be clan battled . that's the difference between you and me. You farm outside town while civilian. I am not the one complaining about losing to grey teams in arena. I am not the one saying clan war system is broke while I go immune to farm. Even tho it is broke. I never back down from a challenge but when I see 3 people trying to kill me I usually try to find help rather than dieing needlessly.

I have proposed ways to help clan wars already and I will say them again. Their needs to be some sort of bonus gained from warring. runes is not enough because it can be exploited with alt clans. personal war rating for each individual that goes up and down as they win and lose clan battles. the more rating the more bonus you get.

As for arena if you lose to grey teams and are one of the top teams you wont be the only ones losing to them teams. But I agree top teams should not fight teams with 1.5k less rating than them. But they only will when the grey team they fight has a high personal rating of each member.

Sanluciferr · 05-10-2012, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulodjohn

I can be clan battled . that's the difference between you and me. You farm outside town while civilian. I am not the one complaining about losing to grey teams in arena. I am not the one saying clan war system is broke while I go immune to farm. Even tho it is broke. I never back down from a challenge but when I see 3 people trying to kill me I usually try to find help rather than dieing needlessly.

I have proposed ways to help clan wars already and I will say them again. Their needs to be some sort of bonus gained from warring. runes is not enough because it can be exploited with alt clans. personal war rating for each individual that goes up and down as they win and lose clan battles. the more rating the more bonus you get.

As for arena if you lose to grey teams and are one of the top teams you wont be the only ones losing to them teams. But I agree top teams should not fight teams with 1.5k less rating than them. But they only will when the grey team they fight has a high personal rating of each member.

Paul , clearly this game is not for us or for PvPs anymore, this is becoming a Care Bears land game full of PvEs that complain about everything that interrupts their repetitive process of doing the same old for years.

They want more benefits and 0 dynamic involved or risks or fun, they use this game as a farmville.

You would be surprised if you start looking for our best PvP friends, you wont find them at Nod anymore,even though they check the forums to see if anything new is added but that just keeps scaring them away to see all the drama and care bears updates... it is sad... because of the huge potential that Nod has, it is dominated by fear that the huge PvE base imposes to the company by saying i quit or crying whenever a PvP fix or patch is added even though they barely do PvP, only arena because they want moar weapons or tcs for their precious PvE.

Dillthetank · 05-10-2012, 08:27 AM

I'm not complaining about them beating us, they only did that once when our tank got dc'ed and we could have lost to any team. I'm complaining about the fact that I have to fight a team with 2k rating less than us every 3rd fight and the fact that they scare away a lot of the lesser teams who can't beat them but lose a ton of rating. There aren't enough teams in arena as it is and I'm just thinking of ways not to scare teams away.

And the reason I farm in civi is because I play at work. Half the time I'm not paying attention to my toon and I don't want to gate every 5 mins when a co-worker comes by or something comes up.

Sanluciferr · 05-10-2012, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillthetank

I'm not complaining about them beating us, they only did that once when our tank got dc'ed and we could have lost to any team. I'm complaining about the fact that I have to fight a team with 2k rating less than us every 3rd fight and the fact that they scare away a lot of the lesser teams who can't beat them but lose a ton of rating. There aren't enough teams in arena as it is and I'm just thinking of ways not to scare teams away.

And the reason I farm in civi is because I play at work. Half the time I'm not paying attention to my toon and I don't want to gate every 5 mins when a co-worker comes by or something comes up.

Dont take it personal Dill you know i like you, but with all respect... dont war then.

I mean i dont blame you.. i blame the game in this particular case.. what kind of war is that i mean you can manipulate it; either you war or u farm; either u go to rainbow land or war city. And losing gates? come on dont join the other 90% of Nod i know you are not as pathetic as them, you really care about gate potions? it takes 100gold pieces each and 1 second to click them and not to mention that now YOU DONT LOSE ANYTHING IF THEY DIE.

Hopefully this gets fixed some day sooner than late.

RogueTigeR · 05-11-2012, 03:00 PM

I like the idea of less loss of rating relative to gain, this will be better for everyone IMO

A 1vs1 arena system SHOULD be implemented, with DIFFERENT benefits/prizes than 3vs3 arena. Pansy makes a good pt. in saying that when / if a 1 vs 1 comes out... It may indeed take away from 3 vs 3 arena... that is why tempers should ONLY come from 3 vs 3, the best prizes /rewards should come from 3 vs 3, and DIFFERENT benefits / rewards, thou IMO lesser ones come from 1 vs 1.

Clan wars still need more benefits to outweigh the potential losses for 'main power clans'...
1 way to do this is to have almost an arena setup for clan wars....
i.e. 2 groups of 3 players, 1 group is valiant, the other group malicious.
players are spread over the map farming,crafting, doing whatever....when 1 opposed toon clan war forces another, immediately (w/o the 10 secs as in arena) all members of both teams are transported there, and clan/light-dark battle takes place for dom/terr.

Dom/Terr need another way to be built besides clan wars and/or light-dark fights. In addition to this, skills, Light side only, Dark side only, NEEEEEEED TO BE IMPLEMENTED, so that more clans join a side.

These R6 runes, cost waaaaay too much RP for little gain....

Makaveliarts · 05-11-2012, 07:06 PM

My opinion on arena as a low lvl is that it is annoying to lose .4-3 rating to a team we had no chance of beating.. We get at least 3-8 looses in a row, and then one win that gives us 3.5-6 rating, somehow we are managing to still climb up in rating though. It will still make it take forever to reach our goals because of this. I feel that we should be losing at most HALF of our current rating per loss.

My team currently has 89 Wins and 386 Losses, and about two of those losses were a close match but the team still had a huge level advantage on us (Good fight though). The rest of the fights we lost were against teams we simply cant beat. It's not the outrageous amount of teams that we fight that we'd have no chance of beating that pisses me off anymore, it's the fact that a lot teams we fight have lower or equal rating to us but we'd never be able to beat them, period, yet we lose a lot of rating to them (8 losses in a row adds up) making it extremely hard to reach our goal.