Season 6 changes -- A possible solution

[Ballrog]

Support end of season tournament for top teams (Top 10-20, whatever works). Each team gets put into bracket (random draw or based upon team's Arena rank just prior to Tournament). Each match-up is a best 2 out of 3 (thus diminishing bad gem draws, etc). The victor moves on in their bracket. The loser is out of tournament. Single elimination would be best to avoid a long tournament time.

Using a bracket system eliminates avoidance of teams. If you have to defeat a team on your way to the top, so be it. If they are not in your path until the last match-up, so be it. No team can encounter another team more than once in bracket system.

Scheduling times for match-ups is up to Glitch to post just prior to Tournament starting. That way all teams involved are aware of their match-up times and can queue up to play their opponent. They do not show up, they lose.

[Kimbelois]

I too am in support of the bracketed tournament format with a best of 3 series single elim. Could use the regular season ratings for seeding purposes. If you are lower rated going into the tournament then you will have to fight harder teams, in theory, etc.

[terrorbladestorm]

league of legends have these bracket tournaments all the time.

I just came out 3rd place in a league of legend for cancer bracket tournament using challonge.com

It should be very easy to arrange a bracket tourny for top 8 teams, or top 16

[Mimi]

I'm thinking of this : i have a single life. If i have a bad luck and loose i can't return and have another chance. But here, in Nod, always will be next season.
Bad luck of some means luck of others.

And if what he says Nooblette is true, in Nod you will always have the confrontation of luck of each team separately, that means bad draw gem, the lucky tri-shot/bladow, the lucky run of crits or blocks.

EDIT : Those who lose will always have complains.

[Nooblette]

Originally Posted by Mimi

What you said there is apparently a complaint of a looser.

Wasn't a complaint, Mimi. It was a suggestion. Which is what this thread was for, I thought.

I am not strong enough to be among the top ten, and likely won't be for a very very long time. So, I don't have a vested interest in how Glitch resolves the final standings, beyond an interest in seeing the arena system improved to provide an honest and accurate outcome wherein the best overall team earns their victory on merit and performance.

[Mimi]

Nooblette, i'm sorry if u understand i'm referring to u. I referred in general way.
But always, a loser can say:
"- Ah, if I could only a good gem draw... I had won..."
"- Ah, if i had just one more trishots... I had won..."
"- Ah, if I ever had a lucky run of crits or blocks... I had won..."
And with that attitude is not fair to blame your bad luck or good fortune of others.
Bad luck or good luck alway exist no matter how many fights will be with a team or other.
Always must be 3 fights with same team. Will be no problem with 3 fights for each team. Also can be 5 fights... no matter.
With one fight we win time.

[Gurnison]

I haven't read all this and may be repeating what others said.

First, I have never liked single elimination tourneys. Even 3 out of 5 matches has a lot of luck involved.

There are more random factors (luck) in this game than many others. As Glitchless said, randomness tends to be randomy. How many "bug" threads have been made by people who did xxx number of fights without getting a drop or whatever?

Whether it's PvP or PvE, the random factor is balanced by large numbers of fights. The arena season is long enough to average the luck factor with every team getting their share of good and bad luck. End of season tourney is not nearly enough to average out the luck factor. Within a few seasons the odds are very high that you WILL see an obviously superior team beaten by an obviously inferior team.

A team could end up throwing away an entire season of hundreds of fights due to a little bad luck.

The purpose of this entire discussion is to find a way to avoid things like fight avoidance, throwing matches, etc. That doesn't necessarily require an end-season tourney to do that. It can be incorporated into the season itself.

For example top teams could have a minimum and maximum number of fights in the last two weeks. And they could have a minimum (and maybe maximum) number of fights against every other top rated team. The point rewards would be the same as the rest of the season.

This would eliminate fight avoidance,

make sure top teams fought each other,

avoid a #1 team just sitting out the last week without risk,

avoid the luck factor because it would still be averaged during the entire season,

and avoid a team making a last minute marathon to increase their rank which other teams might not be able to do (the reason for a maximum number of fights)

It would help with scheduling since the fights could happen at any time during the last two weeks. It would also eliminate the possibility of forfeiting a scheduled tourney fight because the boss made someone work overtime that day.

Bottom line is that it would incorporate tournament like conditions into the end season, but keep the weighting the same as the rest of the season.

[RogueTigeR]

top 125-25 teams tourney for top 100 spots... teams 25-1 tourney for top 10 spots...

* I do believe lower prizes should be given out at beginning of tourney; why?... b/c amt. of arena SHOULD be considered when dishing out prizes b/c a team who arena's everyday to 4-5 days a week should get something over a team that arena's once a week to avoid rating loss.

** Also, maybe prizes at intervals along the way, I see lots of teams rise from the depths the last 3-5 weeks of arena and get or have a good shot at top 10.

[Glitchless]

Originally Posted by Gurnison

I haven't read all this and may be repeating what others said.

First, I have never liked single elimination tourneys. Even 3 out of 5 matches has a lot of luck involved.

There are more random factors (luck) in this game than many others. As Glitchless said, randomness tends to be randomy. How many "bug" threads have been made by people who did xxx number of fights without getting a drop or whatever?

Whether it's PvP or PvE, the random factor is balanced by large numbers of fights. The arena season is long enough to average the luck factor with every team getting their share of good and bad luck. End of season tourney is not nearly enough to average out the luck factor. Within a few seasons the odds are very high that you WILL see an obviously superior team beaten by an obviously inferior team.

A team could end up throwing away an entire season of hundreds of fights due to a little bad luck.

The purpose of this entire discussion is to find a way to avoid things like fight avoidance, throwing matches, etc. That doesn't necessarily require an end-season tourney to do that. It can be incorporated into the season itself.

For example top teams could have a minimum and maximum number of fights in the last two weeks. And they could have a minimum (and maybe maximum) number of fights against every other top rated team. The point rewards would be the same as the rest of the season.

This would eliminate fight avoidance,

make sure top teams fought each other,

avoid a #1 team just sitting out the last week without risk,

avoid the luck factor because it would still be averaged during the entire season,

and avoid a team making a last minute marathon to increase their rank which other teams might not be able to do (the reason for a maximum number of fights)

It would help with scheduling since the fights could happen at any time during the last two weeks. It would also eliminate the possibility of forfeiting a scheduled tourney fight because the boss made someone work overtime that day.

Bottom line is that it would incorporate tournament like conditions into the end season, but keep the weighting the same as the rest of the season.

Then everyone avoids a strong team and that strong team gets doubly screwed over by being penalized for not fighting so many other top teams.

[Gurnison]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

Then everyone avoids a strong team and that strong team gets doubly screwed over by being penalized for not fighting so many other top teams.

How does that happen when you have a minimum and maximum number of fights against all other top teams? Just as an example, team #1 MUST fight at least 3 times each against teams 2,3,4 and 5 sometime during the last 2 weeks.

There could also be a maximum like they must fight 3-5 times against each top teams. The min would address fight avoidance, and the max would reduce the effect of throwing matches.

To be more clear. I was suggesting BOTH a min/max total number of fights, AND a min/max against other top teams. I haven't watched arena closely enough to suggest actual numbers, the 3-5 fights was just an example.

[Glitchless]

So there would have to be a penalty for not making the minimum amount of fights with other teams. And if other teams don't want to face you they wont. Then you've got hit with a penalty for not making your minimums vs 10 teams and each of those 10 teams only have the penalty for avoiding 1 team.

Or if you're suggesting you get completely DQ'ed for not making your minimums it's even easier to have your buddy's team not fight your competitor's team so they get DQ'ed while you go on to win.

[Fior]

How long will be next season of arena ?
One year ? Two years ?
Modality of gain rating must be rethinking and ending arena must be after 3-4 months maximum.


EDIT : Also can be known when arena ending before arena starting ?

[Gurnison]

I guess I never thought that someone wouldn't do it. Must means must. And yes I was thinking disqualification.

It's just about impossible to absolutely determine which team is avoiding. Off the top of my head I'd say they'd have to schedule a meeting if it's not done "naturally" during the last two weeks. Missing the meet is a forfeit and the win goes to the team that showed up. No DQ, just a match forfeit as if they actually fought. So there's not really much incentive to procrastinate and force a scheduled meeting. They will either lose fair and square, or they will lose by forfeit.

[Kimbelois]

Simple fact is, that no matter what system is put in place, some people, not all, are going to find a way to game the system. It doesn't what you do. All you can do is diminish the reward for the gains gained in that method.

Thinking about it, a tournament, as has been suggested, imo best diminishes those concerns. In that, a team can avoid other teams and get fed by friends all they want during the regular season. But, when it comes down to it, they will be forced in a tournament setting to face off against other teams. No avoidance, if you avoid you lose, simple. If the other team throws the match well, they will be the loser in the end wont they?

If you limit the top 20 teams to the tournament you are almost guaranteed that someone in there will be the best team in nod. Arena is all about being able to adapt, overcome, and win against the opponent no matter their teams configuration. In a tournament setting you are near guaranteed that that will be the case. I could be wrong. It is just my opinion.

On the whole the arena system as it is, is fine. Except for 1 or 2 or maybe 3, idk, dishonest teams that game the system to their advantage. The whole point is to lessen the gains gained through those methods. Make them earn it. Then award the top 10 teams as you have been doing.

As I said earlier, locks, laws, and rules only keep honest people honest. IMO if caught those that are gaming the system should be dq'ed from all awards. However, enforcing such restrictions become difficult when people are able to use excuses such as so-and-so was afk or w/e.

As for the solution to this, idk. Its glitchless' game in the end, although we play it, he makes the rules. We abide by them like it or not. Im sure w/e ends up happening, like it or not, we will have to live with them. Sorry.

Sorry for the long post. \o

[Valarian]

Thank you for dropping the original time slot ideas.