Revamp dd

[Lightdrinker]

First part is from san and figured deserved own topic instead of mixed into the nerf healer 1

IMO, we should make a dd revamp and increase the min damage on some dds or even increase too the max ( because of the cnt is too powerful) or the other way around , fix cnt and reduces the % to reduce the chances to do full direct damage, its a bit too high.



I have a dd caster tons invested into it and most dd damge realted skils maxed and about 9 r20 epic gems full lg suit
Currently the chance to resist combined with the lower damage from cnt and skills is a bit out of whack i think
Agi doesnt also lower melle damage while allowing u to parry for example
CNT does not negate any dot damage and this would probably be my mine gripe atm

All the DOT buffs +legendaries have made it so they are the best option for a dps caster because u dont need 400 points intelligence to do damage as well

You can now fling gems that cant be block only hit for their max potential and be built almost like a tank

So i am just asking for a simple answer WHY DOES CNT AND THESE SKILLS NEGATE PART OF MY DD DAMAGE WHiLE GIVING GREAT CHANCES FOR RESISTS

[hotshot64]

I happen to agree as a caster and a meleer in progress. I played with dot's and rocked with them with crappy skills, though I never maxed skills. Basically atm it comes down to buff DDers and piss 80% of nod off, or nerf DoTers and piss 10 people off.

[Lightdrinker]

i dont care about resistance side but the damage neagation effect of cnt is crap daer
1 thing to hit some 1 1 in 10 casts and another 2 see when u finally do hit them it is a minor scratch

[Sanluciferr]

Im glad im not the only one aware of this, i would like more cap dd casters to share their thoughts . and specially those like me who capped dds skills same as dots.

Whoever if you revamp dds, you probably will need to revamp some other classes, unless you find a smart and decent balance.

Imo, Tbh.

[Gstuarts]

Support.

You forgot to add that DoT draws can't be prevented even with Impervious Aura, and they Heal you and refill your Mana/Energy as you land them.

I believe a fix on how CNT and Resists works would be better than a DD buff, but either way could work.

[flipynifty]

tanks should be able to deflect dots onto the caster for triple instant damage tbh

[Lightdrinker]

never really knew that ehe dot energy/mana draw was not prevented with impervious
if that its true that is OP and somin should be implemented to block it
if u r talkin about exhaustion gems though ?

[Gstuarts]

I meant Runes.

DD has Mana and Energy Theft Runes, which are blocked by Impervious Aura.

DoT has Mana and Energy Draw Runes, which are not possible to stop, other than preventing the DoT itself.

I believe it has to do with DoTs not being considered as attacks, which makes no sense to me.

[Lightdrinker]

ya i figured that out and noted in my angelic changes thread perhaps it is time to consider dots as an attack with buffs they recieved and tehir own runes now

[Wernyhora]

I would agree on that as soon as you gimme recastable DoTs.

DD are recastable, DoTs are not. DDs can apply massive damage quickly, faster than DoTs. Although DoTs are better and better the longer fight is.

[Nurvus]

Originally Posted by Wernyhora

I would agree on that as soon as you gimme recastable DoTs.

DD are recastable, DoTs are not. DDs can apply massive damage quickly, faster than DoTs. Although DoTs are better and better the longer fight is.

I agree 90% with this.

Even though all sides in this thread have a valid point, DD'ers can't be buffed unless somehow Glitchless manages to buff them WITHOUT improving their already borderline ridiculous frontload damage potential.

How to do that?
Here's a skill that "refunds" resisted damage as a DoT:
Suffering - Whenever your DD gems are resisted, the resisted damage is applied as a stacking 60 second damage over time effect: Burn if it's Red or Blue, Poison if it's Black or Green, Forsaken if it's White or Grey.

Alternatively, this can be a simple extra effect added to the Inferno and Necromancy skills, but that would shaft White and Grey DDs.
---

What does this mean?
It means the gems still get resisted normally, you don't do any better burst damage than you do now, but you get any resisted damage refunded as a DoT, so you effectively only lose burst when resisted, but keep your overall damage intact.

This also makes Cnc less important to DD'ers, but as burst is their strength, they will want to avoid resists anyway.

[beetdabrat]

Originally Posted by Nurvus

I agree 90% with this.

Even though all sides in this thread have a valid point, DD'ers can't be buffed unless somehow Glitchless manages to buff them WITHOUT improving their already borderline ridiculous frontload damage potential.

How to do that?
Here's a skill that "refunds" resisted damage as a DoT:
Suffering - Whenever your DD gems are resisted, the resisted damage is applied as a stacking 60 second damage over time effect: Burn if it's Red or Blue, Poison if it's Black or Green, Forsaken if it's White or Grey.

Alternatively, this can be a simple extra effect added to the Inferno and Necromancy skills, but that would shaft White and Grey DDs.
---

What does this mean?
It means the gems still get resisted normally, you don't do any better burst damage than you do now, but you get any resisted damage refunded as a DoT, so you effectively only lose burst when resisted, but keep your overall damage intact.

This also makes Cnc less important to DD'ers, but as burst is their strength, they will want to avoid resists anyway.

I hope there would only be a chance of that happening and not always since that would mean vs mobs you would do damage every cast no matter what. Which would make any level boss drop. Would also mean if you couldn't block you would always take gem damage.

Beet Da Brat

[Nurvus]

Yeah I didn't think my idea through much in terms of math, but I believe the concept is dead on.

My point being that you should not get any better at doing instant damage, wich is what would happen if Glitchless lowered the chance of your DD's being resisted.

But if instead of lowering the chance they are resisted, simply refunds the resisted damage as a long DoT (having the resisted damage spread over 60 sec is quite penalizing), it would be somewhat fair.

The chance for that to happen would scale with skill points, ofcourse, I forgot that entirely xD.
Whether it was 1-100% or 0.5-50%, that's not up to me.

[beetdabrat]

Originally Posted by Nurvus

Yeah I didn't think my idea through much in terms of math, but I believe the concept is dead on.

My point being that you should not get any better at doing instant damage, wich is what would happen if Glitchless lowered the chance of your DD's being resisted.

But if instead of lowering the chance they are resisted, simply refunds the resisted damage as a long DoT (having the resisted damage spread over 60 sec is quite penalizing), it would be somewhat fair.

The chance for that to happen would scale with skill points, ofcourse, I forgot that entirely xD.
Whether it was 1-100% or 0.5-50%, that's not up to me.

Well since its triggered by resists, and if you're not being resisted you are either being blocked or doing damage, it should not have a 100% chance. If it did you would always do gem damage against mobs and non shield users.

Beet Da Brat

[Nurvus]

Originally Posted by beetdabrat

Well since its triggered by resists, and if you're not being resisted you are either being blocked or doing damage, it should not have a 100% chance. If it did you would always do gem damage against mobs and non shield users.

Beet Da Brat

Getting resisted is already a chance, so instead of a chance of resisting the resist xD, maybe just refunding a percentage of the damage that was resisted, like 50% @ 100 skill.
Again, just conceptually speaking.

[beetdabrat]

Originally Posted by Nurvus

Getting resisted is already a chance, so instead of a chance of resisting the resist xD, maybe just refunding a percentage of the damage that was resisted, like 50% @ 100 skill.
Again, just conceptually speaking.

Are you talking about the damage reduced by cnt and ac, or having the dd gem become a dot if it is resisted. As in you would have done 3k but only do 2k so the 1k is done in a dot or the resist pops up then burn of 3k/60 pops up if using red/black?


Beet Da Brat

[Nurvus]

The damage you would've done if it wasn't resisted.

[beetdabrat]

Originally Posted by Nurvus

The damage you would've done if it wasn't resisted.

You say being resisted is a chance already but that and blocking are the only thing that completely negate gem damage. If resist was just to change it to dot gems would have a 100% hit rate on anything that couldn't block them. Since you'll either be doing the direct damage or doing a damage over time if resisted.

I don't see that happening as I don't think Glitchless would want to give anyone a 100% hit rate on mobs of any level. I could be wrong though.

Beet Da Brat

[Nurvus]

This regards the fact that DD users need to invest alot more into Int and therefore have alot less Cnc than a DoTer.
This means DoTers have less chance to be resisted, plus their damage ignores armor, and a few other issues that DDers do not need to face.

So my suggestion is such that in light of this and the buffs given to DoTers, IF there is any need to buff DDers, then I suggest it is done in a way that somewhat solves their "easy to be resisted" situation without making them "even more bursty" than they're now.

You're right about there needing to be a fail chance.
In the end, the skill should simply have enough chance to go off to even out the difference in fail-chance between DDers and DoTers, not removing it completely.

So if hypotetically DDers get resisted 20% of the time and DoTers get resisted 10% of the time (half as much), the skill (at 100) would go off 50% of the time, converting 100% of the damage that would've been done into a 60 second DoT.

Wich would mean out of those 20%, 10% would be converted into a DoT.
---

Again, I'm not saying DDers need this, I'm just saying that "IF" they actually need a buff, this would be the right way to do it.

[beetdabrat]

Originally Posted by Nurvus

This regards the fact that DD users need to invest alot more into Int and therefore have alot less Cnc than a DoTer.
This means DoTers have less chance to be resisted, plus their damage ignores armor, and a few other issues that DDers do not need to face.

So my suggestion is such that in light of this and the buffs given to DoTers, IF there is any need to buff DDers, then I suggest it is done in a way that somewhat solves their "easy to be resisted" situation without making them "even more bursty" than they're now.

You're right about there needing to be a fail chance.
In the end, the skill should simply have enough chance to go off to even out the difference in fail-chance between DDers and DoTers, not removing it completely.

So if hypotetically DDers get resisted 20% of the time and DoTers get resisted 10% of the time (half as much), the skill (at 100) would go off 50% of the time, converting 100% of the damage that would've been done into a 60 second DoT.

Wich would mean out of those 20%, 10% would be converted into a DoT.
---

Again, I'm not saying DDers need this, I'm just saying that "IF" they actually need a buff, this would be the right way to do it.

I don't know. Dot doesn't get affected by assurance rune and epic/legendary hit chance effects. So they may actually get resisted about the same as dd. If anything a change to the min damages to help stabilize gem damage may work. As well as a skill that does a dot effect off of the new min damage. Either forsaken or disease as these won't stack with arhcer's bladow and pets wound/slashers slice. If, indeed, a buff is needed.

Beet Da Brat