Should vampires heal from bloodlet/bleeds?

[Huggles]

I just want to see the public's opinion on this. I think they should, but then again I'm just a vamp who wants a buff.

[Darkdingus]

To make them on par with other meleers, I'd add bloodlets for piercers.

After bloodlets, pierce does about the same damage as the other types of weapons.

As far as bleeds go, I don't think so. It would make vamp/caster and vamp/bm FAR too strong. Bms are already tanky.

I know the bleeds would also give slash a well-needed bonus, but it would profit others much more than slash, so I wouldn't call this a "slash buff".
- I get WHY bleeds SHOULD steal health (enemy bleeds. Drink. Profit), but I don't think this would help.

What I'd like to see about weapon-based bleeds, burns and poisons is for them to proc Dividends and Gift of Light. That would make for an "interesting" turn of events. I don't think this would be balanced in any way, and it would have to be worked upon a lot, but a nice idea still, and it would basically help you "vamp" off bleeds. Instead of being a "Buff me vamp pl0x", it would become closer to "make my dot skills do something moar than damage"

[Jadakris]

I don't feel they should get them from bloodets, nor bleeds.

As stated, if they get it from bleeds it would make certain vamp types.. (whippers)
too strong. Cause if you crit for 600-1.1k (highest dmgs I've seen) it means they are going to heal 2x. Ontop of thier pet heals they are already getting..

And as far as bloodlets go, it only really benefits piercers. But then again, a well built 2h piercer can already deal nearly as much damage slasher/crusher.. Throw in their 700+ bloodlets at cap and it would be the same situation..

Also, you can say they don't hit as much as as 1h and such and until the 99 2h.. but fact of the matter is the 99 2h piercer exists.. and does have one of the highest base damages in the game..

[Darkdingus]

The 99 2h piercer has this high damage because of a high delay.

The damage all 3 classes, similarly equipped and skilled, is equivalent WITH bloodlets.

Remove the piercer's bloodlets, and he deals less damage than a crusher. This means that the crusher heals for more while doing the same damage. THIS is the part where it seems rather unfair.

[Jadakris]

I never said classes/weapon types were exactly all that fair. They are however rather balanced as you said. I also never disagreed with it.

But like I said a good piercer can already deal almost equal to what other classes can with max damage (keep in mind average damage is higher aswell). My problem with this is with that roughly 30% bonus (Vamp bonus + rune + legendary BP) that said piercer is receiving something like a 210 heal EVERY turn. Where is a slasher might get what.. 40-50 HP
and a crusher like 30?

Its the possibily to heal that much EVERY turn that is abit UNFAIR in my eyes. Sure the other classes have the chance to make up for it in max damage.. But the odds of the piercer getting it is much greater than the slasher/crusher as alot higher % of their damage is sure fire.

[Nurvus]

I can't tell whether it would make them overpowered or not, but it might be okay.

Crushers wouldn't feel much of a buff, as their Min Attack is low.
Slashers and Whips would feel some difference.
Piercers would, however, be the most benefitted, and this would bring piercers even higher in Vampire's list of weapons of choice.

I think it might even be okay to give the ability to benefit, possibly at a lower %, from DoTs and DD damage as well, through certain skills.

EDIT: Maybe DoTs and DD would be like 60% of the bonus = 3% (up to 9%), or 40% of the bonus = 2% (up to 6%).

EDIT 2: On a second note, looking at other classes, Warriors gain a 15% boost to max weapon damage, they don't get the boost to DD damage, etc. They don't get higher Bloodlet damage.
Extending Vampire healing effect to more sources could make them far too good.

I think if Vampires get more sources of healing, the overall effect needs to be nerfed - like healing from any source, but only 4% to 12% from melee, ranged, bloodlet and pet, and 3% to 9% from DD and DoTs.

[Darkdingus]

I wouldn't mind a change going that way.

@Jada The fact that at the end of a fight, a piercer has healed less than a crusher still remains, while both dealt the same amount of damage at about the same speed.
Regardless of what might be said, it would ALSO help whippers. Whips have GOOD base damage.
The only weapon class remaining to get up to par would be slash.

[RogueTigeR]

IMO, bleeds should not be 'vamped'.. but bloodlets should; this should also effect the vamp rune aswell. The piercer's total dmg. does indeed need to include bloodlets to put them on par w/ other weaponry types; without this dmg, or 'vamped' healing, the piercer really does not stand a chance against others, whether its used by a vampire class, or another using the vampire rune.

There does need to be something in the way of BM's (whippers) out healing to death opponents. By allowing bloodlets and not bleeds to effect the 'vamp' healing (whether class bonus or rune), I believe does this, because IF the BM in question uses a piercer, they lose most of their natural healing bonus from the whip+pet combo.

Althou, perhaps a bleed could be implemented to return HP w/ vamp class or vamp rune from melee sources only, excluding whips (basically just slash).

This is a valuable suggestion and I think Glitchless should really look into it. The ability for piercers TOTAL dmg (initial hit PLUS bloodlet) and slashers TOTAL dmg (bleed effects) to initiate the vamp class bonus AND vamp rune ability is something this game would benefit from.

[Nemesiss]

everytime my stun is blocked by a stoic i want a heal in its place, crusher exclusive

[Jadakris]

Originally Posted by Darkdingus

I wouldn't mind a change going that way.

@Jada The fact that at the end of a fight, a piercer has healed less than a crusher still remains, while both dealt the same amount of damage at about the same speed.
Regardless of what might be said, it would ALSO help whippers. Whips have GOOD base damage.
The only weapon class remaining to get up to par would be slash.

But this wouldn't be the case at all, infact odds are he would have healed more infact.. Atleast the law of averages says so.

[RogueTigeR]

Originally Posted by Jadakris

But this wouldn't be the case at all, infact odds are he would have healed more infact.. Atleast the law of averages says so.

I disagree, w/o bloodlets, and since critical hits infact raise heal rates of vamp bonus and vamp rune, a crusher would indeed heal more than a piercer. Crusher's best friend: crits
Piercer's best friend: bloodlets

[Jadakris]

That comment doesn't make much sense at all. Becuase a crusher will crit just as much as a peircer skilled the same. Infact you personally should understand this, cause I've seen you hitting more with your 99 2h than ALOT of the 99 2h crushers out there.

I understand that doesn't say much, as I can break 3k with my 85 slasher.
But the point of mine still stands, the constant healing via bloodlet will give peircer a HUGE advantage PvE. Where I have only seen max hits of liek 1.1k (mega blacks ofc) which actually when all is said and done is close to possible for a 2h piercer. (probably like 8-900) ontop of the high bloodlets.. Catching my drift yet?

[RogueTigeR]

1. You forget about the delays... the 99 2h piercer has a HUGE delay. YES, it can hit HARD...
2. But what I am saying is this: critical hits help crushers more than piercers...

logic: *imaginary numbers and weapons*
crusher- 1-10 dmg, 5 delay, avg dps: 5.5/5
Piercer- 5-6 dmg, 5 delay, avg dps: 5.5/5
*we all know you very very very rarely with melee weapons hit for min. dmg. and you hit for avg dmg. rarely as well when stats are in the right places. For this example we will say each hit is at 80% for the crusher, and 100% for the piercer.
Critical Hits: Crush:8x2= 16 dmg. Piercer: 6x2= 12 dmg.
This is NOT the pt. im trying to make.... the pt. IS... 16-5.5=11.5 extra dmg b/c of crit VS
12-5.5=6.5 extra dmg b/c of crit.

*the pt. of this example IS: crushers, and to a degree slashers, b/c of their innate higher max dmg/ delay, get MORE out of crit's.... 10x2 vs 6x2, both are 200% dmg, but 10x2 is 10 more than 10, whereas 6x2 is only 6 more than 6.

bloodlets NEED to be factored in when totaling dmg of melee weapons. If crit's give higher heals, then bloodlets too should be included in vamp class bonus and rune ability of heals.

[Darkdingus]

This would make it so Crush = Huge heals, and pierce = constant heals, just like crush = huge crits, and pierce = bloodlets

[RogueTigeR]

exactly

[Smashbros]

bloodlets should have the vamp ability connected to it.

you can mitigate bloodlets, why cant you leech from them aswell??

[RogueTigeR]

good pt. smash

[Jadakris]

I like how everyone completely leaves slash out of it.. The 2h slasher delay with proc is only 8 or 9 delay lower than the piercer!

And I guess you have a great point than you realize.. I completely forgot about piercers bloodlets getting bigger with crits otherwise I would have made valid points!

[Smashbros]

and slash get a skill to increase max, like crush but at a smaller %, you know .2% instead of .25% per level.

pierce increase min.

[Jadakris]

I understand all of that.. The max bloodlet I have seen out of my 85 atm is 105.. :S Curious to see what it is after I manage to pick up a 99 2h..