Should vampires heal from bloodlet/bleeds?

[paultwloha]

While we're asking for buffs. I want my arrows to pierce shields.

[Nurvus]

Keep in mind that Crushers get a pseudo-heal out of Smash - because the enemy isn't doing anything during the stun, allowing you some "free damage & healing".
Slashers and Piercers, however, don't get anything for Vampires out of their specialties - bleeds from Slice or poisonbolt from Puncture.

So yes Crusher does have a clear advantage for vampires as nearly 99% of their effect reverts into healing, specially Dual Wielding Crusher Vampires (nearly no Bloodlet).

Slashers get a decent benefit, and Piercers are getting the short stick atm.

Adding Bloodlet to the calculations won't make Vampires too good, it'll make arguably underpowered strategies slightly more useful.

Adding DoTs or DDs to the Vampire bonus would, however, require a nerf to the overall %.

[Nemesiss]

and then there's stoic

[Nurvus]

Every Crusher's excuse.

But...

...and then there's gem shatter.

*...and then there's 2+ stoic*

...and then there's a bunch of ingame slots wasted to deal with something possibly 1 out of 3 in the opposing team will be using, that can go back to the pouch after preventing 1 stun.

One day, there will be brain transplants.
---

My point stands that Crushers get the blessing, the wings, the halo and the shining pathway to the heavenly penthouse of the Vampire bonus lovers.

On the bright side, Slice and Puncture help Slashers and Piercers still stand below Crushers in damage.
On the brighter side, those effects get nothing out of Vampire bonus.

Oh wait...

EDIT: Is it me or posts lately are getting really biased?

[hotshot64]

Crushers are better because of stuns, piercers are better because you can have 9 trillion ac and that's still guaranteed damage, and slashers are better because of pretty dps and nice bleed procs in addition to a bleed skill. Maybe, just maybe, Glitchless actually THOUGHT about things before he made them the way they are.

As for bias, do you really think you're not being biased right now by saying crushers get everything and slashers/piercers get screwed? Do you have a capped toon of every weapon type and class with 100 in every skill? If not, you have no right to make that claim.

[Thomas Jordan]

Originally Posted by hotshot64

Do you have a capped toon of every weapon type and class with 100 in every skill? If not, you have no right to make that claim.

Oh my. That will come back to haunt you.

[hotshot64]

Not really, I'm not the one asking for buffs for my "obviously underpowered" weapon type daily.

[Jadakris]

Originally Posted by Nurvus

Every Crusher's excuse.

BLAH BLAH BLAH

His point was more or less this. In a one versus one fight. You can negate ALL stun effects. However at a maximum-ish you can only negate 30-35%~ of a bloodlet. With legendaries, AND potions.
If someone has 2 r10 stoics what do you do? You lose that proc.. Yes theres also a gem that prevents stuns with a 90% chance of staying in play..

My point being, not everything is solely based on arena. There is one versus one PvP in this game. And in his case its mostly resulting in someone elses perma-death or his one lousy item he loses.

Now what if theres 3? Keep in mind most normal duels you don't even get off enough attacks to knock out one, of the anti-stuns naturally.. unless by the stroke of luck..

90% vs 30%.. hmmmmm.


hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. See his compliant here? So when they do get vamping from Bloodlets at the maximum they lose 30% of their heal.. while the crusher is going to lose his advanatage.

And maybe they should get it, but then again arguing and bickering without pointing out EVERY situation is alittle bit biased aswell is it not?

[RogueTigeR]

You forget... Gem slots are NOT infinite, and aura slots are like 10x more valuable than regular gem slots. Yes, you may double or triple up stoics. BUT you're losing 1-2 valuable auras. In addition to that... just to pt. out... r15 stone pot mit's 33%....w/o leg'drys factored in....

[Jadakris]

Irrelavent compared to the cost darling. Perhaps maybe in arena, but I will state this fact once again...

NOT EVERYTHING IS BASED ON ARENA


Going to use this as an example of my point.

Say Nem would have happened to force on me while I was PK.
Most likely what would have happened was I would have had
Anti-Stun/Flame Call/Sloth Or some combination similar.
However, towards the end when he came back
I farmed with Anti-Stun/Anti-Stun/Lucidity

What would he do in this case? Sure I'm sacrificing valuable slots, but in a strategic manner. Fact of the matter is I don't NEED the flame call, because my natural DPS is enough to beat him no matter what gem he shattered. Because odds are I can simply not cast if he choses to shatter the AOL. And even if I do hit myself with a double cast it is doing minimal damage due to skills.

Odds are I'm not farming with a r15 potion, most because I cannot even wear r15 potions. Nor would it be cost effective to bother wearing that potion.


My point is, even if its 50% mitigation it beats 100% prevent.
And the cost of being able to completely negate a crushers bonuses is what, under 300k..

Cost to mitigate a piercers bloodet - Over a few million for the 10% from the legs.. And like minimal of a few hundred K per hour for the r15 potions?

[Nurvus]

Originally Posted by hotshot64

Crushers are better because of stuns, piercers are better because you can have 9 trillion ac and that's still guaranteed damage, and slashers are better because of pretty dps and nice bleed procs in addition to a bleed skill. Maybe, just maybe, Glitchless actually THOUGHT about things before he made them the way they are.

As for bias, do you really think you're not being biased right now by saying crushers get everything and slashers/piercers get screwed? Do you have a capped toon of every weapon type and class with 100 in every skill? If not, you have no right to make that claim.

0/100 Reading Skill

I didn't say Crushers are the best.
I'm saying Crushers are the best melee weapons as far as Vampire bonus goes.

Please keep in mind what we are talking about instead of derailing this into a "most OP weapon" contest.

I'm saying it makes sense allowing Bloodlets to proc Vampire healing precicely because as far as Vampire healing goes Crushers are the best out of the melee weapon types, and both Slashers and Piercers get a reasonably big portion of their damage from non-Attack damage (Bloodlet & Bleed/Poisonbolt).

Adding Bloodlet to the Vampire healing would help even out the 3 melee types' usefulness as far as Vampire class is concerned, because Crushers would remain just as good (weak bloodlets), and Slashers and Piercers would increase in usefulness to match Crusher's Vampire healing (mid/high bloodlets).

@Jadakris - you're so cool.
Don't worry, denial is temporary. You'll heal soon.

[Huggles]

total damage = a + b + c + d + e + f
vampire heal = a + f
where a is attack, b is bleed, c is bloodlet, d is direct damage, e is DoT, and f is pet damage
as crushers have the highest A and the lowest B and C, they are the best for vampires, even assuming that a,b, and c balance total damage out between weapon classes.

The reason I think this is bull is because the words bloodlet and bleed do not heal vampires, which are known for (wait for it) drinking blood to heal. And because these effects do not heal vampires, slashers and piercers (and whips to a lesser extent) cannot compete with the healing power of crushing weapons.

[RogueTigeR]

Huggles has spelled it out perfectly

[Raith]

Holy hell... huggles said something pretty smart and perceptive. I agree with the logic on both counts, but I doubt a change is coming anytime soon. Lots of stuff is weird in Nod. Jeff happens. As it's not (I think) a game-changing balance issue... I'm not gonna hold my breath.

[Zur]

[Darkdingus]

bump for justice

[Megaman]

As a bm vampire i dont think bleeds should, Trust me it would be massive heals for a bm vamp. when you can get bleeds upwards of 300 stacked 30% of that would be 90 a tick add in pet heals (assuming your not using a rabid which in most cases you prolly are) and your talking massive heals for bm vamps.

As for bloodlets, i really dont have any view since ive never had a piercer so i really have no clue what their bloodlets are like or how often they get them.

[Wallace]

Well i actually wanted to say something to add into equation but this topic has drained all the point i could think of except...

Vampires NOT healing from Bleeds and Bloodlets now that's just calls for a double facepalm

Oh! and BTW one would think that Vampires would benefit mostly from slashing then piercing and then crushing (if at all) weapons...

How it is in nod? 1st place Crushers, 2nd Clashers and last place Piercers...
Now that just calls for so much sense that i'll use my foot to make a triple facepalm xP

[Roo]

Vamps don't need a buff.

[Wallace]

See how vamp healing works for crushers and then see how it works for piercers...

Then say that again!

Thing is when choosing a Vampire class you do not have other weapon choice than crushers if you want to be a min maxed killing machine

Making Vampires heal from blood spills (;P) would balance the feature and crushers wouldn't be only option for Vampire class