Arena CA

[hotshot64]

It's been suggested many times before but I'll bring it up again. When CAs were brought into Nod they balanced out the classes. Classes that were somewhat weak in the area they were supposed to be strong in basically got a buff in that area, and classes that were already really strong got a weaker CA. This worked out pretty well IMO. But the problem is, all the really powerful CAs have a big cooldown. People complained about that a little bit but recognized that they got big power along with that long cooldown.

Along came arena. With the instant cooldown of CAs in arena, long cooldown CAs like angel became ridiculously OP, a 4k angel heal is far more beneficial in arena than a 500 guardian block or a 1k ranger damage, but they effectively have the same cooldown. Even that wasn't so much of a problem, because people didn't particularly want to switch to angel or some other class with a super CA. But then came secondary classes. Every douchebag who wants a free edge in arena chooses that angel heal, and bam, you're up against a team that has the potential to do 12k heal purely from their CA, with an instant cooldown. Just using angel as an example since it's the most obvious one.

The solution? I have 3 potentials. Make it so CAs don't instantly cool down when entering arena, make it so CAs can't be used in arena, or make it so CAs only have partial power, or no power, if they're part of a secondary class. I prefer the first one, but any one of those 3 has the potential to rebalance arena.

[Amaranthos]

Concur. I've been up against angel teams even before the secondary class update, and it wasn't fun even back then. SINCE then though, yes I agree; I've see angel secondary over and over in arena.

Another possibility would be to create a literal "arena CA," a CA that is only usable when in an arena match; a standard CA for all classes. Nobody would be happy with that though, so I agree...change immediate cool-down.

[clausewitz]

i support teh first one ...

I support any of the three of Daer's suggestions. Daer makes some good points, and I personally don't want to have to choose Angel as a secondary class just to be able to compete against all the others. What's the point in having secondary classes if everyone chooses the same thing? Of the three, my preference would be a "powered down" second ability (arena only). But any would work.

[Destruction]

I'm sorry, but I don't agree.

Folks can choose angels x3 as many as they want; however, against a well prepared team, those CA's are meaningless. The angel team will still loose if they are total novices at arena.

--Weapons don't make the man, it's how the man uses the weapon.-- Same for CA.

[hotshot64]

Originally Posted by Destruction

I'm sorry, but I don't agree.

Folks can choose angels x3 as many as they want; however, against a well prepared team, those CA's are meaningless. The angel team will still loose if they are total novices at arena.

--Weapons don't make the man, it's how the man uses the weapon.-- Same for CA.

Sure, and the CA is part of the class, but I say CAs should be used as intended, with their cooldowns intact. I've obliterated teams that suddenly could beat me because they essentially had that extra 12000 combined hp, which is considerable, especially if you're putting all that on a good tank.

[Weirdgus]

Destruction has a point, the CAs work fine the way they are right now.

[Makaveliarts]

I agree, but not necessarily with the solutions given.

Retaining Cooldown does not sound good.
Getting rid of them from arena doesn't sound good.


Maybe balancing them, just for arena, so Arena has its own CA Balance, while outside of Arena CA's stay the same?

[Smashbros]

i agree with dest, that a team thats prepared can beat angel teams.

but

last season, 1 of the members on my team went angel as 2nd, and cause of that we were able to beat teams we previously couldnt beat.

also to those saying that angel is a 4k heal, it is, but if you wait till a member is killed, you get 1/2th health of that person back, which when used on me gives 6.5k hp instead of 4k.

1. Allow CA heals to be affected by Gravebound.
2. If ressurected in the arena you start with 25% of your life, or 4000 whichever is lower.

[RogueTigeR]

A big point has yet to be mentioned in this thread... the cooldown times!!! I am very familliar w/ the rogue's CA b/c it is my first class and I have been useing it forever now; welll, it goes like this.... in a longish medium arena fight, i get to use my CA twice if I use it right off the bat... which i do.. and my CA cooldoown time is one of the faster ones, but there are many others w/ just as long, shorter, and slightly longer CA cooldown times that when its a real good arena, and things are going back and forth, you will get to use your CA multiple times...

and b/c of that ... i vote things are fine as is... no change

[launcelot]

Leave it be.

The longest cooldown is the angel ability which is 20(10 with accel). Unless you are playing at the peek hours of arena when you are given fights every 3-5 mins then angel ability will be cooled down anyway, even at peak it is probably at about 7 or 8 mins into the recharge. Nothing is really gonna help you if you cant handle an extra heal on the other team. The ability can only used once in arena if it lasts a long time, while the shorter cooldown abilities can be used up to 10 times making them possibly stronger than the long cooldown abilities.

Yes its annoying, No its not impossible to kill them. Get over it and quit crying.

[Raith]

Originally Posted by Destruction

--Weapons don't make the man, it's how the man uses the weapon.-- Same for CA.

This is true. Except that if a Hemi 'cuda and a busted minivan race, then it's horse****. So actually, if CA's are inherently inequal, then it's false. And CA's are not equal.

However, I don't agree with changing this around. This would be targeting all the people who chose Angel (or w/e) as their 2nd class, and then screwing them. This is wrong. You could have chosen angel. They don't have an advantage you couldn't have if you wanted. You just decided, as did I, that other things were more important than a rez for arena.

Keeping CE/CS but leaving out CA for Arena is straight up asshat retarded. Not resetting cooldown would hurt those who grind instead of sit in town to Arena - which would again be an after-the-fact change. Same with altering them. So I'd be against these two. I don't think, either, that a team with angel 2nd when only the CA is used is somehow too unkillable. So I'd just say bummer and get better at killing angels.

[Smashbros]

Originally Posted by Raith

However, I don't agree with changing this around. This would be targeting all the people who chose Angel (or w/e) as their 2nd class, and then screwing them.

against this point, im fairly sure that glitch said it aswell, that they are stupid for chosing the 2nd class for the CA of that class alone.

therefore if thats the reason they chose the 2nd class, then tough **** if it gets changed one em

[hotshot64]

I've been thinking about it for a while, having read some of these suggestions and responses. So here's my updated proposal:

CAs cool down at a normal rate regardless of arena. But a new arena timer is implemented. Meaning you have a normal CA and an arena CA. The only difference between the two is your arena CA only cools down while you're fighting in arena, then stops cooling down when the fight is over. This would 100% equalize the CAs by making them all cool down just as fast as they're meant to, instead of instantly, while not penalizing people who farm during arena. Thoughts?

[Smashbros]

Originally Posted by hotshot64

I've been thinking about it for a while, having read some of these suggestions and responses. So here's my updated proposal:

CAs cool down at a normal rate regardless of arena. But a new arena timer is implemented. Meaning you have a normal CA and an arena CA. The only difference between the two is your arena CA only cools down while you're fighting in arena, then stops cooling down when the fight is over. This would 100% equalize the CAs by making them all cool down just as fast as they're meant to, instead of instantly, while not penalizing people who farm during arena. Thoughts?

that i like, id support it, as it doesnt change much really

[Sanluciferr]

I dont get it, the fact that the class abilities are always available at arena is not a problem, is a freaking arena you are well prepare and in your best shape, even the gods bless you at the beginning with op heals.

And about the angel class ability that is op and etc, well is op ofc but its delay is high as hell as well, you can use it only 1 time in arena since arenas after min 10 are a draw ( almost sure this is because of that as well). I remember on the final days of the last season when he absurdly added the 2nd class patch with like a week remaining on arena... Spd team was op and it was a 50%50% our matches until they all 3 went angel and neo and me went jews, sounds funny but it is true and we won all matches since then vs them, it was like killing a cat , 6 lives.

Anyways what do i want to say with all this? that doesnt matter if you choose the best healing class ability, what matters is how you combine and work as a team.

Originally Posted by Destruction
--Weapons don't make the man, it's how the man uses the weapon.-- Same for CA.

[hotshot64]

Originally Posted by Sanlucifer

I dont get it, the fact that the class abilities are always available at arena is not a problem, is a freaking arena you are well prepare and in your best shape, even the gods bless you at the beginning with op heals.

And about the angel class ability that is op and etc, well is op ofc but its delay is high as hell as well, you can use it only 1 time in arena since arenas after min 10 are a draw ( almost sure this is because of that as well). I remember on the final days of the last season when he absurdly added the 2nd class patch with like a week remaining on arena... Spd team was op and it was a 50%50% our matches until they all 3 went angel and neo and me went jews, sounds funny but it is true and we won all matches since then vs them, it was like killing a cat , 6 lives.

Anyways what do i want to say with all this? that doesnt matter if you choose the best healing class ability, what matters is how you combine and work as a team.

You're talking about the top percentage of teams, I've fought against teams from 0 rating to 2k rating and i've never been in a fight lasting longer than 1 minute. And at those ratings (where the majority of people are) CAs actually can make a huge difference in battle, especially when you have 3 people that put 12k free extra life on a good tank. Which is fine, but what's not fine is the fact that they can use that extremely powerful ability just as often as my archer teammate can use his ability that deals a few hundred damage. Not asking for a nerf by any means, but I am asking that arena be balanced the same way as anything else.

[Sanluciferr]

Originally Posted by hotshot64

You're talking about the top percentage of teams, I've fought against teams from 0 rating to 2k rating and i've never been in a fight lasting longer than 1 minute. And at those ratings (where the majority of people are) CAs actually can make a huge difference in battle, especially when you have 3 people that put 12k free extra life on a good tank. Which is fine, but what's not fine is the fact that they can use that extremely powerful ability just as often as my archer teammate can use his ability that deals a few hundred damage. Not asking for a nerf by any means, but I am asking that arena be balanced the same way as anything else.

You dont make any sense or probably your logic messed up, i am talking about 2 teams that were equally skilled and matches were as close as they could be and those 2 teams had difference choices, A team decided to go Jews and B team decided to go Angels, you say angel ability is too op right?, what happened there then? teams in arena from 0 rating to 2k rating ... sounds like a lot of factors more than a single ability even bonuses from classes and etc affect too.

All i am saying is that class abilities are really balanced with the extra bonuses from the class + the cooldown delay and in particular; angel ability is not that op and when you go to an arena you start fresh with the same opportunity , angels will use ability only once ( if they ever use it ) and wisely ( if they know when to use it) other abilities are even more op with some gems and with a really low cooldown since he added shattering, trust me.

[hotshot64]

Originally Posted by Sanlucifer

You dont make any sense or probably your logic messed up, i am talking about 2 teams that were equally skilled and matches were as close as they could be and those 2 teams had difference choices, A team decided to go Jews and B team decided to go Angels, you say angel ability is too op right?, what happened there then? teams in arena from 0 rating to 2k rating ... sounds like a lot of factors more than a single ability even bonuses from classes and etc affect too.

All i am saying is that class abilities are really balanced with the extra bonuses from the class + the cooldown delay and in particular; angel ability is not that op and when you go to an arena you start fresh with the same opportunity , angels will use ability only once ( if they ever use it ) and wisely ( if they know when to use it) other abilities are even more op with some gems and with a really low cooldown since he added shattering, trust me.

Yes, the abilities are balanced, but they're balanced with a certain delay. Angel has a 20 minute cooldown for a reason! As for jewelers, that's widely regarded as an extremely OP CA for high rated teams, so it's a horrible example, as it's the only CA that might actually be considered truly OP. Regardless, angel is just an example. My problem, and the problem of many others of low to mid rating, which is the majority of nod, is the fact that high delay CAs are high delay for a reason. Would you make a gem heal for 3 every 2 seconds and a gem heal for 50 every 30 seconds and then drop them both to 2 seconds only for arena? It makes no sense.