Max DPS Calculations

[Huggles]

CURRENT PRIZE: 5K FOR MAX 2H PIERCE DPS


This thread will finally stop archers from bitc...i mean complaining, and give new players an idea of what they have in store for them.

Feel free to post your own calculations. No prizes will be given (for now), because i need to buy a TC before my face runs out, but there may be prizes later. If anyone would like to take a stab at max caster DPS, knock yourself out.

Include accuracy, crits, extra damage, and all DoT effects.
*assume all enemies fought are white*
*since bows have arrowrain, include DPS for fighting 2 and 3 enemies*

Include Pet Damage for all of these

BOWS (excluding DD and DoT gems)
Pure Bow User
Bow User with Shield
Bow User with Shield + Whip
Bow User with Whip
Bow User with Dual Whips

Melee
1H Slash + Shield
1H Crush + Shield
1H Pierce + Shield
1H Whip + Shield
2H Slash
2H Crush
2H Pierce
2H Staff
Dual Slash
Dual Crush
Dual Pierce
Dual Whips

if it helps i know black DD users can at least crit for 517

[Huggles]

well you would have to calculate average damage per gem, including crits, flamecall, classes, draw speed...

this thread goes beyond (min+max)/(2xdelay)

i'v worked out tht with not even great skills i can hit for 3.5x max of my DD gems

[thatperson]

u cant give prizes for answers that u urself dont know huggles

[Huggles]

all i have to do is check the work.

and i'll probably end up doing most of it myself

[Huggles]

FINISHED (Besides Pets. checking to see if Paladin gets bonus to Rabid.)
[FONT="Lucida Console"]Let's get started!

Equipment: (this is just the best equipment for bow users based on stat bonuses and damage, in my opinion)
Bow of the Soulthief
Nightkeeper's Talon
Quiver of Elder Dragons
Legging of the Remorseless (x2)
Sleeve of the Demented Retributer (x2)
Deathkisser's Chestguard
Deathkisser's Helmet
Spear of Hardened Death

Classes:
Primary: Archer-15% bonus to max ranged damage
Secondary: Paladin-16% bonus to beneficial aura effects (This is better than 16% to min ranged that a ranger would get because of Broadhead Aura and Range Haste Aura.)

So, here we go!

__________________________Min Damage-------------Max Damage
Bow____________________________13_________________ 104
Arrow___________________________10________________ _154
Total____________________________23_______________ __258
Archer___________________________23_______________ _296.7
Broadhead (with Paladin )x1.1x1.16__29.348____________378.5892
Max Cnc/Int x1.5________________ 29.348____________567.8838
Trishot x 1.2___________________35.2176____________681.46056
Crit x1.25496327792_____44.19679473647539____855.207978 1507988
Broadhead +29.41883976_73.61563449647539____884.626817910798 8


So then average bow damage is 479.1212262036371.

Delay:

Starting Delay- 34
Quiver- /1.41 = 24.11347517730496
Range haste aura /(1.1 x 1.16) = 18.89770781920451
Swiftarrow Rune/ 1.1 = 17.17973438109501

So, the average delay then is 17.17973438109501.

Average damage/delay = 479.1212262036371/17.17973438109501 = 27.8887447020644

So archer without pets has a DPS of 27.8887447020644? Nope!

What about Flameshot and Poison Arrow?
Flameshot has a 50% chance of adding 1 DPS. So that's an average of .5 DPS extra.
Poison arrow has a 25% chance of adding 1 DPS, so that's .25 extra.

27.8887447020644 + .5 + .25 = 28.6387447020644

Now then, on to accuracy.

At level 100 Epicurious, the bow will have Epic accuracy, same as all 99 epic weapons. So let's call that even.

Precision gives melee a 10% bonus chance to hit. Trained Eye gives bows 15% bonus chance.

Also, arrows cannot be parried. That is all.

With maxed skills, and the best build, bow DPS will be 28.6387447020644. If any archer dares post melee DPS, please, I beg you- entertain us.

[Roeth]

Originally Posted by Huggles

NOT FINISHED YET, BUT LOOKING LIKE BOW USERS HAVE NOTHING TO WHINE ABOUT

Let's get started!

Equipment:
Bow of the Soulthief
Nightkeeper's Talon
Quiver of Elder Dragons
Legging of the Remorseless (x2)
Sleeve of the Demented Retributer (x2)
Deathkisser's Chestguard
Deathkisser's Helmet
Spear of Hardened Death

Classes:
Primary: Archer-15% bonus to max ranged damage
Secondary: Paladin-16% bonus to beneficial aura effects (This is better than 16% to min ranged that a ranger would get because of Broadhead Aura and Range Haste Aura.)

So, here we go!

__________________________Min Damage-------------Max Damage
Bow____________________________13_________________ 104
Arrow___________________________10________________ _154
Total____________________________23_______________ __258
Archer___________________________23_______________ _296.7
Broadhead (with Paladin )x1.1x1.16__29.348____________378.5892
Max Cnc/Int x1.5________________ 29.348____________567.8838
Trishot x 1.2___________________35.2176____________681.46056
Crit x1.25496327792_____44.19679473647539____855.207978 1507988
Broadhead +29.41883976_73.61563449647539____884.626817910798 8


0.3922511968% chance to cause damage to be multiplied by 1.65 and 75 dmg added

29.41883976
0.6077488032
1.40278552528

Right then, all you're doing is making life a lot more awkward for yourself than you need to.

Forget equips (leggings, items with enchants, etc) and work at the actual max numbers that have (generally) already been worked out.

For example, if you are working out figures for a crusher, you assume that the STR is at the point where it's going to do the 'ideal' damage (i.e. 1.5* base). The same applies for archery sets. The fact that the archer is carrying a 99 epic 2H piercer with perfect enchantments is irrelevent. The same applies to the BP and helm that you've specified.

So, either assume that the toon in use has 'perfect' stats IN ALL CASES, or that they have 'entirely average' stats (in which case, the max damage is the max stated on the item description).
There is an argument for including leggings and sleeves, because of extra crit/hit chance, but the difference between the base 'fully-skilled' toon (whether DW or bow user) makes this almost a moot point.

Also, delay does play a damn big part in any of these calcs.
For example:

Weapon 1 : has a 90% chance to hit, does 200 damage ...
Weapon 2 : has a 90% chance to hit, does 4000 damage

The figures you've put up have no delay calcs on them.

Weapon 1 has a delay of 10, weapon 2 has delay of 400. Which one is better now ?

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by Roeth

Right then, all you're doing is making life a lot more awkward for yourself than you need to.

Forget equips (leggings, items with enchants, etc) and work at the actual max numbers that have (generally) already been worked out.

For example, if you are working out figures for a crusher, you assume that the STR is at the point where it's going to do the 'ideal' damage (i.e. 1.5* base). The same applies for archery sets. The fact that the archer is carrying a 99 epic 2H piercer with perfect enchantments is irrelevent. The same applies to the BP and helm that you've specified.

So, either assume that the toon in use has 'perfect' stats IN ALL CASES, or that they have 'entirely average' stats (in which case, the max damage is the max stated on the item description).
There is an argument for including leggings and sleeves, because of extra crit/hit chance, but the difference between the base 'fully-skilled' toon (whether DW or bow user) makes this almost a moot point.

Also, delay does play a damn big part in any of these calcs.
For example:

Weapon 1 : has a 90% chance to hit, does 200 damage ...
Weapon 2 : has a 90% chance to hit, does 4000 damage

The figures you've put up have no delay calcs on them.

Weapon 1 has a delay of 10, weapon 2 has delay of 400. Which one is better now ?

read the part that said not finished yet. i had to go to basketball game, didn't get to add the delay and accuracy calculations

[Thomas Jordan]

Huggles:

You're mixing apples, oranges and apricots and coming up with three cheese lasagna.

Create a bow user, level it to 85, raise all your skills to 85, and then compare your kill times to your current kill times. All the stuff you are playing with here is irrelevant.

TJ

[Thomas Jordan]

I'll make this even easier for you Huggles.

Go read the threads about "Exploit Weakness" not working. Conquorer (a true archer class, I am not) has posted his exact maximum crit damage (mine is a bit lower). It's around 650 or so. Compare that to the boasting Smashbros does in civil about his 1,100+ crits (using a weapon with a lower delay than the full 88 bow set, so more hits in a given period of time) and the 600+ bloodlets (no comparable archery skill) and do the math. Oh, and the probability that Smashbros will do a crit is much higher than the probability that Conquorer will do a crit. You do the math. Who is going to win that one?

Melee skills increase immediate physical damage, so Smash can do his 1,100+ damage. Archery skills have a probability of inflicting damage over time. The total damage inflicted by the 88 bow set may very well exceed the total damage that Smash can do. Only one problem. The archer is dead now from Smash's immediate damage. Smash may die several minutes from now when all the DoT takes effect. Who won? Hint. It wasn't the bow user.

TJ

[Huggles]

god damn you! now i have to do the calculations for 2H pierce! (to prove that you are wrong)

[Thomas Jordan]

Just multiply all the values for 2H piercer. You already know the answer is going to be in the neighborhood of 1,100+ from Smash. You also know the bow answer from Conquorer - around 650. Frankly, why even bother doing the math? But if you really want to . . .

TJ

[thatperson]

1100*2=2200 650*3=1950 seems pretty close max to me just off by 250

ill do the calcs later tonight after i get off work huggles

[Roeth]

Lets just look at some base figures for a melee DPS built toon.
Warrior/WM, CE, CS and SS maxed. All melee skills maxed
DW 99 epic slashers (falchion of Forever), damage 20-166, delay 27, proc 27% chance of 38 bleed.


--------------------------------------Min----------------------------Max
Base --------------------------------20----------------------------166
Warrior class(+15% max)------20-----------------------------190.9
WM sec class(7% bonus) ------21.4- -------------------------204.263
Slash spec (20%)----------------25.68-------------------------245.1156
High STR---------------------------25.68-------------------------367.6734
DA (double attack) *1.2---------30.816-----------------------441.20808
Pain rune R5 (8%)----------------33.28128 --------------------476.5047264
Spike R5 rune(+5 min dam-----)38.28128--------------------476.5047264

Next, Crit/overcrit. With both skills maxed, there is a 25% chance of causing (1.5 * base damage, *1.33 for overcrit) = 1.5*1.33 = 1.995. So that is a 25% chance of 1.995* damage. For the ease of calculation, I’m going to assume that the .33% chance per point for overcrit is actually .333333333%, and round the 1.995* up to 2* damage

Crit/overcrit ends up as 25% chance of double damage. That’s equivalent to a flat 25% damage bonus
Crit/o’crit----------------------------47.8516--------------------------595.630908

Average damage = 643.482508 / 2 = 321.741254

In addition, hemmorage will be 38 damage, 33% of hits. That = 12.54 extra damage per hit, so now = 334.281254
Slice will give a 60 damage bleed, on 35% of hits. Thats an extra 60*.35 = 21 damage per hit, so now 355.281254

Delay : base delay = 27
Quicksteel rune R5 = 10% bonus, so 27/1.1 = 24.545 delay
So dps per weapon = ... 14.4747 SO FAR

But its DW ... so dps is doubled, so = 28.9494


Huggles has calculated max bow damage as 28.6387447020644.

DW slashers are already above that, and there are quite a few items I can't be bothered calculating ....

It’s about here that I decide I can’t be bothered. After all, I’ve got to (realistically) put in additional crit chance for the epic armor, like Huggles has done (this is why I suggested ignoring equipment)
In addition, Let’s assume this warrior is carrying a epic 9 bow (hell, I do, and I use 81 slashers). That gives a 1% chance of multi-attacks.


Oh, while we're at it, ... vengeance and deathblow skills anyone ?


PS. my apologies if some of my calcs are wrong...

[Thomas Jordan]

Thatperson:

Let's see. Your comparing a double attack with a maximum of a 20% chance of occurring to a tri-shot with a maximum of 10% chance of occurring? And implying they are about equal?

Ok, fair enough. 20% X 2 X 1,100 (assuming maximum damage [using the value provided by Smash]) = 440 expected value.

10% x 3 x 650 (assuming maximum damage [using the value provided by Conqueror]) = 195 expected value.

Really want to keep this going?

TJ

[thatperson]

and there also something people never seem to realize....DPS IS ONLY HALF OF THE STORY


@ tj your comparing a weapon type that is pure dps (2her) in pretty much every MMO to a weapon type that is average dps with defensive capabilities (bow) does this seem like the bow should have just as high dps?

if bows need a buff it needs to be in the defense department not damage

[Thomas Jordan]

Bow? Defense? Huh?

Vengeance maybe? Sort of a copy of the pre-patch mirrored blade.
Kiting? Sort of a copy of parry.

What "defense" are you otherwise talking about?

[Smashbros]

ok im sorry if i got anything wrong here.

im going to work out the max crit, and the max bloodlet for the 2h pierce (using the 99 2h) then someone else can work out the DPS based on that

to make it simple, im going to use my classes, Weapon Master / rogue (bloodlet is higher with rogue/wm though)

base damage: 49 - 244

ok Bloodlet first:

49+5 = 54 (spike rune 5)

54*1.4 = 75.6 (pierce spec) (rounding to 76)

76*3 = 228 (crit)

228*1.25 = 285 (vengence)

285*2 = 570 (deathblow)

570*1.08 = 615.6 (pain run 5) (rounding to 616)

616*1.105 = 680.68 (wm CA/CS at 100) (rounding down to 681)

681*1.2 = 817.2 (rogue SS) (rounding to 817)

That makes a possible bloodlet of 817.

ok now on to max hit, using same classes.

244*3 = 732 (crit)

732*1.25 = 915 (vengence)

915*2 = 1830 (deathblow)

1830*1.08 = 1976.4 (pain rune 5) (round to 1976)

1976*1.105 = 2183.48 (wm CA/CS) (round to 2183)



sooo that makes the true damage for the 99 2h pierce 817 - 2183 when you are a weapon master / rogue.

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by Roeth

Next, Crit/overcrit. With both skills maxed, there is a 25% chance of causing (1.5 * base damage, *1.33 for overcrit) = 1.5*1.33 = 1.995. So that is a 25% chance of 1.995* damage. For the ease of calculation, I’m going to assume that the .33% chance per point for overcrit is actually .333333333%, and round the 1.995* up to 2* damage

Crit/overcrit ends up as 25% chance of double damage. That’s equivalent to a flat 25% damage bonus
Crit/o’crit----------------------------47.8516--------------------------595.630908

The way average damage is to be calculated:

Chance of critical damage x damage multiplier + chance of regular damage x regular damage. this is the most logical way, at least in my mind, to calculate average damage when calculating crits (and stuff like that).

example: 50% chance to crit and do 1.5x damage means average is x1.25, because is is 50% chance for 1.5, so .75, and 50% chance for 1, so .5. .5 +.75.


I might remake this thread and make it only for answers, no arguing.