Question about exploit weakness

Conqueror · 01-02-2011, 01:32 AM

I am trying to figure out how this skill works.

Here is how I thought it worked ...

With this skill at lvl 85, I would get a .85 % increase in damage per shot.

So after 10 shots, I would expect a .85 * 10 = 8.5 % damage increase.

After 25 shots, I would expect a .85 * 25 = 21.25 % damage increase.

When I use a broadhead aura, I notice the increase in damage [Loving broadhead aura by the way]. I hit harder and it is obvious that the aura is working.

I am sure that I reach 10 + shots every fight. I have yet to see any noticeable damage increase from this skill.

It leads me to believe that the exploit weakness skill does not work how I think it works. So if anyone knows how it works, I would be glad to hear your input. I have seen other people showing concern about this skill as well and so I want to clarify how it works.

Thank you

Conqueror

Edit: Is it possible, that the skill resets every time I miss a shot ? How about when I turn off autoshoot because I am dazed and then press autoshoot again ?

Sanluciferr · 01-02-2011, 02:52 AM

idk yo im drunk but i thought at lvl 100 it was 1% per shot u landed

Conqueror · 01-02-2011, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanlucifer

idk yo im drunk but i thought at lvl 100 it was 1% per shot u landed

That is how I thought it worked too. Which is why I said .85 % per shot landed at lvl 85 in exploit weakness.

The reason I bring it up is as follows:

If you equip a broadhead aura or a rune of pain you will notice an increase in your max crit.

Broadhead aura only gives a 6/7 % increase to damage [rank 2/3] (but within a few fights, if not during the very next fight, you will notice a new high crit).

Rune of pain gives an 8 % increase to damage [rank 4] (and again within a few fights, if not during the very next fight, you will notice a new high crit).

Lvl 85 exploit weakness would theoretically give an 8.5 % damage increase after 10 shots. I exceed 10 shots on every mob fight. Even with a 6 % increase from a rank 2 broadhead aura, I noticed a new high crit almost immediately. But the exploit weakness skill does not seem to produce similar results.

Perhaps the exploit weakness skill gives the bow user a higher chance to hit closer to the maximum value (increasing dps without increasing the max crit; skew effect somewhat akin to the effect of a high int/cnc value).

If anyone has tested the skill, feel free to post here. I would appreciate your input.

Cheers

chrisdj · 01-02-2011, 09:55 AM

i have this skill at 60 weirdly as far as i can see this skiill seems to add 1 damage every couple of levels to my max crit it doesn't seem to add damage the more shots you take on a mob as you say rune of pain and broadhead aura's you notice the effect imidately but not the exploit weakness i dont think its working as the discription in the skill says either
loving the broadhead aura to
hate the speed aura gem for the high cost for little impact in your speed epic fail in my opinioni it would have made more sense for the speed up to be 5% for level 1 to go up in 5% speed levels to 25% for a rank 5 for the heavy mana energy costs but thats just my opinion
really would like exploit weakness to be cleared up to

thanks for bringing this up conq

Conqueror · 01-02-2011, 08:46 PM

Thank you for your post Chris. There is definitely something wierd going on with this skill.

The melee vengeance skill produces immediate results as well. I can not figure out what is going on with the exploit weakness skill.

Here is a test that I did:

__________________

I bought a level 14 bow and arrow.

I unlinked the rune of pain and switched to my empty gem pouch.

I even put my pets in inventory.

Then I spent a while on traveller's way determining my highest ambush crit.

Highest ambush crit with lvl 14 bow and arrow = 133.

Then I went to a higher lvl area.

I turned on autoshoot and recorded every single hit; missed shots were excluded.

Here are the results:

Here they are in graph form:

I did not see a single hit higher than my 133 ambush high crit value.

Furthermore, the trend line has a negative slope indicating that there is no skew effect either.

If anyone has definitive proof that this skill works, please let me know.

Thank you

chrisdj · 01-03-2011, 11:01 AM

well i'm glad i'm not the only one who hasn't a clue what this skill actualy does!
thanks for the comprehencive infomation
any chance glitchless can answer this ?

Thomas Jordan · 01-03-2011, 11:32 AM

Interesting graph, Conquoror.

I haven't raised the skill as high as some of you have, but high enough that I should see it working in long fights. So far, I can't tell that either crits or non-crits are doing more damage towards the end of a fight than they do near the beginning of a fight. If the skill is working as stated on the skill screen, then we should be doing more damage towards the end of a fight than do we at the beginning.

TJ

Conqueror · 01-03-2011, 05:34 PM

The only reason I bring this up is because the skill does not seem to be doing anything for me at the moment.

I could be mistaken. Perhaps it is working.

I will keep testing it.

If I see any proof that it is working, I will let you all know about that too.

Again, if anyone has any proof that this skill works, please enlighten us and tell us how it works.

Thank you

Raith · 01-03-2011, 06:59 PM

The only thing I could think would be more accurate is to track the shots, from start to finish, and restart the graph at each battle. If, for instance, you had a fight of 10 shots, have a few dozen marks of shots 1-10 and see if later-fight shots are higher on average than early round fights. Or did you mean that you used a lvl14 bow and had a 59 shot fight?

StormGuardian · 01-03-2011, 10:43 PM

Yea, best thing to do is do more than 1 fight. If Glitch were to respond, he'd say something about you needing more than 1 data set. So do a bunch of fights, and get all your maxes...then you may have something.

Conqueror · 01-04-2011, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raith

Or did you mean that you used a lvl14 bow and had a 59 shot fight?

^
That

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormGuardian

Yea, best thing to do is do more than 1 fight. If Glitch were to respond, he'd say something about you needing more than 1 data set. So do a bunch of fights, and get all your maxes...then you may have something.

I thought of that too.

However, I posted because I have been farming with this skill at a relatively high lvl for quite some time now.

In essence, every time I fight a mob with my 88 bow, I am running a test. I get 10 + shots in every fight with that bow. In every situation, my highest possible crit = my highest ambush crit as well.

Truth be told, it is a skill that is unlocked at level 80. It requires 5 times as much xp to level up.

I should not have to scrutinize this much to look for the effects of a skill that requires 5 times the base amount of xp to increase.

Again, I invite any bow user to show me definitive proof that this skill is doing something for them. I can see how this is a lvl 80 skill and there are not many people who are in a position to test out its efficacy. But if you are one of the few who can test it out, let me know. Maybe I am just missing something.

Cheers

lankas · 01-04-2011, 02:49 AM

guys, do reroll, no matter what class, its best update nod ever had. You can lvl your skill alot faster than before reroll. Show me the player who is using 10k trophies per day while burning 1 tc w/o boon.
for example 89->99 suiting in 6 days.
epicurious 89->100 5 days.

Gurnison · 01-04-2011, 02:56 AM

Yea, you need a much larger data set. You also should remove the crits from the non-crits. Combining them just adds another variable and creates all those outliers making the results hard to read. With 85 exploit the increase should be pretty obvious, but one fight isn't really enough.

My archer is capped but only has 29 exploit and I've never paid attention to it. If I had TM I'd do some testing.

Conqueror · 01-04-2011, 03:13 AM

Good point Gurnison about keeping the crits separate.

I'll do some more testing.

StormGuardian · 01-04-2011, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conqueror

Truth be told, it is a skill that is unlocked at level 80. It requires 5 times as much xp to level up.

I should not have to scrutinize this much to look for the effects of a skill that requires 5 times the base amount of xp to increase.

This statement I totally agree with. If there is a bug somehow, then it def. needs to be fixed...BUT:

I'll have to get Raith to verify this, but he said when he hit 80 and started leveling exploit, he was hitting higher crits at the end of his fight than from ambushes. Exact numbers or w/e I don't remember, I just know I calc'd his maxes(on ambush vs exploit after 25 shots) and it was indeed working.

chrisdj · 01-04-2011, 03:37 PM

well all i can say is i have exploit weakness currently at 60 all it seems to do is add 1 damage every few levels to my max crit (normaly the ambush 1st shot) i.ve never seen it ever go above that only equal it no matter how many shots i've used and at level 60 after 25 shots i should have gotten a 14-14.5% increase to max damage thats never happened i can assure you

Conqueror · 01-04-2011, 04:33 PM

Exactly my observation too Chris (except I have not seen an increase of 1 either).

With 60 exploit weakness, you should see an increase of 6 % after 10 shots.

I use a rank 2 broadhead aura. The 6% extra damage is almost immediately noticeable. Yet I have had exploit weakness at a high level for quite some time now and I haven't noticed a thing.

Raith · 01-04-2011, 07:28 PM

Well, it's been a while since I looked at it, to be honest. I gave the 88 bow up, got a staff, and killed faster with lower skills. As I can recall (I could take a Dex pot and retest it I suppose), I leveled Exploit to 49 the first day it came out. I immediately noticed that, a handful of shots into the fight, I would occasionally crit for 2 or 3 points (not 10 or 20, 2 or 3) poins higher than I should be able to. Our general assumption was that Exploit as ~50 should give a 12.5% bonus after 25 shots. I did do a couple long fights, and never saw any such thing. I also collected grind average over 25 fights (not a long dataset, admittedly) before I leveled the skill, and did another 25 with the skill at 49. My kill average was (I threw the numbers away a while back) actually slower (blame the RNG I suppose - 25 is not a lot) after than before. I assumed the skill was then a skill made to only affect long boss fights (did that work... so much for "archers will now become valuable in boss fights"), and stopped leveling it. Sorry guys... it's frustrating but I gave the bow up for a reason.

Thomas Jordan · 01-05-2011, 11:30 AM

I duplicated Conqueror's test this morning.

Full 88 bow set in N. Lake. 375 Dex, Int & Cnc. No pets, and an empty gem pouch. Level 28 in exploit weakness (translates to 7% extra damage after 7 shots according to the skill description). I recorded four sets of data. I'm not all that good with making pretty excel graphs, nor do I have anywhere to upload screenshots of those graphs, so here is a summary of the results.

For all four sets of data, the non-critical damage was basically a flat line at 300 damage. The highest recorded damage was 360, near the beginning of a battle. The lowest recorded damage was 69, in the middle of a battle. Nearly every other hit was very close to 300.

If this skill was working per the skill description, I should have begun at around 300, observed an increase to 321, and then seen a flat line at about 321. That did not happen. The lines remained flat at 300.

TJ

Gurnison · 01-05-2011, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Level 28 in exploit weakness (translates to 7% extra damage after 7 shots according to the skill description).

With 28 exploit you will get 0.28% increase per shot. So after 7 shots you will only see an increase of approx 2%. You would never be able to detect this small amount in a short fight. That's why I don't test with my archer because with low exploit it takes long fights with a low level bow set to see it, and I don't have TM.

About the flat line. When the patch came out I interpreted it as a maximum 25% increase, meaning it would flat line after 25 hits with max skill. But after reading it again it looks like there is unlimited increase, and the 25% mentioned was only an indirect way to say 1% per hit at max skill. So if that's what it means, then after 100 hits you should see double damage, and in theory after 1000 hits you would see 10X damage.