Question about exploit weakness

[chrisdj]

using the 91 bow 88 arrow and 78 quiver rune of pain rank 4 broadhead rank 2
i can very rarely hit a single max crit of 987 normaly on an ambush shot or a few shots into the fight even on boss fights or very long arena fights when using this set its never gone beyond that sum i would notice even a slight 2% increase as it would take me into the magical 1k single crit which so far never happened
i've put massive amounts of exp trophies into leveling an 80 skill to 60 becuase it was 'promised' according to glictless this would make a place for archers in high level boss hunts!
so what exactly is this skill doing for archery?
enough people have made the same conclusion NOTHING as discribed in skill discription!

so glitchless we have been polite in pointing this out to you so would you kindly explain to us whats going on? and what this skill does? and if this skill is working as you intended?

thank you

[Thomas Jordan]

Gurnison:

We can agree to disagree.

At skill level 100, the skill states 25% increase in damage. That is 0.25% increase per skill level. Therefore, at skill level 28 (a bit above 1/4 of 25%), I should indeed expect to do 7% extra damage.

I totally disagree with you that this skill has the potential for unlimited extra damage. It quite explicitly states that at skill level 100 it will do 25% extra damage after 25 SHOTS (not hits). It says nothing about doing more than 25% damage.

All that is neither here nor there. No one who has tested this skill, whether at my level of 28 or higher levels from the 60s to 80s, has observed ANY effect.

TJ

[Conqueror]

Originally Posted by chrisdj

using the 91 bow 88 arrow and 78 quiver rune of pain rank 4 broadhead rank 2
i can very rarely hit a single max crit of 987 normaly on an ambush shot or a few shots into the fight even on boss fights or very long arena fights when using this set its never gone beyond that sum i would notice even a slight 2% increase as it would take me into the magical 1k single crit which so far never happened

315 * 1.5 (int/cnc) * 1.5 (crit) * 1.085 (sc) * 1.1318 (cs and ce) * 1.08 (pain)* 1.06 (broadhead) = 996

Something is probably off in these #'s. I can never get archery calculations quite right. Plus I assumed that you had 85 sc and 85 cs and ce.

But 987 sounds right without exploit weakness.

With a 6 % modifier after 10 shots or a 15 % modifier after 25 shots, you should have easily topped 1k.


This is why I am reporting too. My exploit weakness skill is higher than 60 and I have not reached milestones that I was expecting to reach a long time ago in terms of my high crit value.

Originally Posted by Thomas Jordan

Gurnison:

We can agree to disagree.

At skill level 100, the skill states 25% increase in damage. That is 0.25% increase per skill level. Therefore, at skill level 28 (a bit above 1/4 of 25%), I should indeed expect to do 7% extra damage.

I totally disagree with you that this skill has the potential for unlimited extra damage. It quite explicitly states that at skill level 100 it will do 25% extra damage after 25 SHOTS (not hits). It says nothing about doing more than 25% damage.

All that is neither here nor there. No one who has tested this skill, whether at my level of 28 or higher levels from the 60s to 80s, has observed ANY effect.

TJ

This is how I thought it worked TJ.

With the skill at 100, there would be a 1 % increase after every shot that landed up to a 25 % increase after 25 shots.

So with a skill of 28, there would be a .28 % increase after every shot that landed up to a (.28 * 25) = 7 % increase after 25 shots.

Even a 7 % increase should be quite noticeable (Remember the broadhead aura rank 2 gives only a 6 % increase and its results are immediately noticeable).


If you want to take the skill for a spin, get a low level bow and arrow so that you can top 25 shots. See if that makes any difference.

And again, this is how I think it works. No one really knows what is going on here.

Originally Posted by Gurnison

But after reading it again it looks like there is unlimited increase, and the 25% mentioned was only an indirect way to say 1% per hit at max skill. So if that's what it means, then after 100 hits you should see double damage, and in theory after 1000 hits you would see 10X damage.

I disagree with this too. But again, I have no idea what is really going on here.

______________________



Finally, I did one more fight. Again with a lvl 14 bow and arrow. No rune of pain. No broadhead aura. No pets equipped. No quiver equipped.

Highest ambush crit shot = 133

Here are the results.



Highest crit value was 133 (equal to ambush high crit value of 133).

Highest non crit value was 79 (several times).

Trend lines have a gradual positive slope this time.

I attribute the difference in slope to random variation. The dots are all over the place and the slope could have just as easily been a gradual negative.

Plus with slope, int/cnc itself produces a positive skew further confounding the results.



I am beginning to think that this is an exercise in futility.

[chrisdj]

oh look no responce to an archery thread yet again from glitless
looks like its the whole blinding arrow fiasco over again where we will all tell him its not working as it should we all offer proof takes about 3 months of complaining before anything gets done (if anything at all of course!)
so much for glitchless notion of 'balence' 'fair play' and he doesn't favour certain classes above others then eh? anyone wonder why so many archers have rerolled or changed build away from archery this was ment to be the great leveling skill at cap to make us worthwhile and of course its anything but as per usual!

new year same old glitchless it seems

[hotshot64]

Originally Posted by chrisdj

oh look no responce to an archery thread yet again from glitless
looks like its the whole blinding arrow fiasco over again where we will all tell him its not working as it should we all offer proof takes about 3 months of complaining before anything gets done (if anything at all of course!)
so much for glitchless notion of 'balence' 'fair play' and he doesn't favour certain classes above others then eh? anyone wonder why so many archers have rerolled or changed build away from archery this was ment to be the great leveling skill at cap to make us worthwhile and of course its anything but as per usual!

new year same old glitchless it seems

And now it will be answered. Not because Glitchless suddenly finds it relevant, but because someone freaked out and couldn't be patient, and as business people, they feel they have to address the problems of the loudest people who threaten the most. Hence the "I'M GOING TO QUIT IF THIS DOESN'T GET FIXED" problems getting fixed before the "Please fix this if you can" problems. Thanks for being one of the typical people who think everything is about themselves and the world is out to get them.

[locurasbeach]

And now it will be answered. Not because Glitchless suddenly finds it relevant, but because someone freaked out and couldn't be patient, and as business people, they feel they have to address the problems of the loudest people who threaten the most. Hence the "I'M GOING TO QUIT IF THIS DOESN'T GET FIXED" problems getting fixed before the "Please fix this if you can" problems. Thanks for being one of the typical people who think everything is about themselves and the world is out to get them.

As business people that's their work, try to get as much happy people as possible to be able to earn more money. I know a lot of archers and i follow closely chrisdj, and his statement is true, why so many archers are rerolling? i'm not an archer but if i was i'll think seriously to reroll. It seems like reroller's boon was for pure archers to stop whining, but i don't think they're whining, conqueror's charts -if they're true- put a point of proof in a probable bug, so code and tests should be done from glitchless imo ofc.

[paultwloha]

I have yet to unlock this skill yet but with broadhead the difference is immediately noticeable. And with a 6% or even high should be a noticeable difference especially with max. With the 67 bow and arrow I crit 564 without broadhead R2. But with it I see a few 611 crits.

[Thomas Jordan]

Originally Posted by hotshot64

And now it will be answered. Not because Glitchless suddenly finds it relevant, but because someone freaked out and couldn't be patient, and as business people, they feel they have to address the problems of the loudest people who threaten the most. Hence the "I'M GOING TO QUIT IF THIS DOESN'T GET FIXED" problems getting fixed before the "Please fix this if you can" problems. Thanks for being one of the typical people who think everything is about themselves and the world is out to get them.

The leader whiner who whines all the time about Glitchless not responding to his posts is whining because someone else had the temerity to ask why this topic has not had a response from Glitchless?

Your post is totally irrelevant Daer. It contributes nothing.

So far, no one has been able to demonstrate that this skill is working per the skill description.

TJ

[Thomas Jordan]

Found a place to upload the graphs.

The "Theory" graph is an "idealized" version of what should be happening with this skill. Every shot increases the damage by 1% until the appropriate skill level is reached. In my case, that's 7%. Obviously, real data would fluctuate around this idealized graph.

The next four graphs are the actual plots from the tests I ran and described a couple of days ago. None of them come even close to matching the "theory." Neither do the two plots posted by Conqueror.

TJ

[Enduir]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12138280

"Women's tears can have a negative effect on men's sexual desire, a new study suggests."

*flaccid*

[Smashbros]

Originally Posted by chrisdj

oh look no responce to an archery thread yet again from glitless
looks like its the whole blinding arrow fiasco over again where we will all tell him its not working as it should we all offer proof takes about 3 months of complaining before anything gets done (if anything at all of course!)
so much for glitchless notion of 'balence' 'fair play' and he doesn't favour certain classes above others then eh? anyone wonder why so many archers have rerolled or changed build away from archery this was ment to be the great leveling skill at cap to make us worthwhile and of course its anything but as per usual!

new year same old glitchless it seems

ever thought he is sick of the constant bitching by archers about how much they suck??

hell if it was me in glitches shoes, id just forum ban you, so i dont have to deal with your constant crying.

if you think archers fail that much, THEN ****ING REROLL ALREADY. dont sit here and bitch and abuse glitch cause he is working on more important updates.


here is a another point aswell for alllll the archers:

conq, despite providing data, has only provided it for 2 fights. which proves nothing really.

also, with an increase of 6%, the same as a pain rank 4 rune, isnt that noticable all the time, and the nature of the game means you dont always hit your max possible, therefore you have no real proof that it doesnt work, as you havent hit your absolute max.

the numbers, while seeming to show you hitting the same as before, could just indicate that your damage is being hit at lower then normal rates, which isnt a bug, it is just simple random numbers.

[paultwloha]

Well smash. The biggest part of seeing the effect his hitting past your max. I'm not as strong as many archers out there. The 67 bow isn't the strongest. So just with the 6% that's a 50 damage increase. The effect may have been a bit of leveling on my CE but still.

[chrisdj]

smashbro's you can talk you've just been whining about two handers and how you need to hit harder glitch actualy answered you and your getting a buff
lets clear up a few things we have been waiting for an answer to this thread being nice is getting us nothing asper usual you got your answer straight away so shut it you dont like then bugger off posting in archery threads
i never said i would quit or reroll you arsewipe i said i know loads that have this is a fact not an excited rant to get noticed so grow turdbrain

all we want is an answer to why an 80 skill that takes massive exp isn't working as glitch has stated fairly simple but as we know so well getting anything out of this game when it concerns archery always seems to be never that

smashbro's your last argument carries as much weight as your 2 combinded brain cells as the skill says your damage increases climbing to 25% after 25 shots your max crit in a very long fight would be better by a long way at some point

the only reason i got angry is because we have put forward a concern that somethings not working its not a buff its a fix to something that should work so whats your problem ?

go back to bleating whining and begging in your own posts you obnoxious windbag after all it seems to work so well for you also try growing up your growing more purile with each post you make

[Smashbros]

Originally Posted by chrisdj

smashbro's you can talk you've just been whining about two handers and how you need to hit harder glitch actualy answered you and your getting a buff
lets clear up a few things we have been waiting for an answer to this thread being nice is getting us nothing asper usual you got your answer straight away so shut it you dont like then bugger off posting in archery threads
i never said i would quit or reroll you arsewipe i said i know loads that have this is a fact not an excited rant to get noticed so grow turdbrain

all we want is an answer to why an 80 skill that takes massive exp isn't working as glitch has stated fairly simple but as we know so well getting anything out of this game when it concerns archery always seems to be never that

smashbro's your last argument carries as much weight as your 2 combinded brain cells as the skill says your damage increases climbing to 25% after 25 shots your max crit in a very long fight would be better by a long way at some point

the only reason i got angry is because we have put forward a concern that somethings not working its not a buff its a fix to something that should work so whats your problem ?

go back to bleating whining and begging in your own posts you obnoxious windbag after all it seems to work so well for you also try growing up your growing more purile with each post you make

lol. the fact that you cry in every ****ing archer thread gives you no believability when it comes to things like this, check my sig and it will show you what glitch thinks of that.

the fact that only 2 battles have been posted in here shows nothing, nothing at all and if you base all your crying on that, your a bigger idiot then you seem.

my problem is that archers cry about everything. you got new gems to buff you, you cried, you got a skill to use poison and flameshots together, you cried, you got blind skill, you cried, you got this skill, you cried.

DO YOU GET THE ****ING PICTURE NOW?!?!?

and yes, i posted in a 2h thread, showing my stats, and stating that based on those and the comparison of fighting others, and farming, if i was using any other weapon, yes including archery, i would be farming faster. glitch has asked for posts like that before, so that they can balance the game better.

the mold the base all buffs off, is melee/archery, so the fact that they use archery as a base to try and improve weapons to match then id say they are fine the way they are.

if you dont wanna reroll, fine, but be happy with what you have, the archer class has the most buffs of any other recently, so its not like your getting neglected like you claim, hell there is a archery thread made every other day it seems.

annd finally, resulting to insults shows how immature you are, i dont whine about patches in my post though, thats where you wrong. i point out something, and try and get evidence to back it up, or i suggest something. which is alot better then crying cause i cant be uber.

[Thomas Jordan]

Smash:

More than two battles have been posted here. Reread the thread.

No one is whining here (well, except maybe for you and Daer). We are questioning whether or not this skill is working as advertised. So far, no one has been able to demonstrate that it is. The new buffs to 2H that went into effect this afternoon instantly displayed results (as you so gleefully reported in civil all evening). The problem with this skill is no one has yet observed any results, that includes players who have in the skill in the 60s - which should produce a 15% damage increase. If that was happening, it should be glaringly obvious.

TJ

[Smashbros]

Originally Posted by Thomas Jordan

Smash:

More than two battles have been posted here. Reread the thread.

No one is whining here (well, except maybe for you and Daer). We are questioning whether or not this skill is working as advertised. So far, no one has been able to demonstrate that it is. The new buffs to 2H that went into effect this afternoon instantly displayed results (as you so gleefully reported in civil all evening). The problem with this skill is no one has yet observed any results, that includes players who have in the skill in the 60s - which should produce a 15% damage increase. If that was happening, it should be glaringly obvious.

TJ

yes cause i went from 29.37% to 89% bonus, which is noticable.

and before you tell me to reread, go read chrisdjs first post, the 1 that i responded too to start with, where he was whining.

[Conqueror]

Great.

Seems like every block head on these forums pooped on my thread.


It is true that I posted the results of only 2 fights. But I farm every single day and I reach at least 10 shots in every single fight. I should have seen something by now.


A 1.06 % modifier from a broadhead aura produces results that are immediately noticeable. I am puzzled that I have not seen similar results with a larger modifier over a significantly larger period of time.


It doesn't matter any more.

All Glitchless will say (if they do say anything) is that it is working in some wierd way that is beyond our puny comprehension.

I regret that I ever brought it up.

[Thomas Jordan]

Conqueror:

I don't regret that you brought it up. If you at least read the whole thread, I went back and duplicated your efforts with four tests of my own. I posted a discussion of those tests a day or two ago, and the graphs from those tests this morning. I got the same results you got - no damage increase with additional shots.

All of this has gotten me to considering something. Could this be a "temperance" type skill, which Glitchless did say had to be at a pretty high level before it had any noticeable effect? I hit 84 temperance today, and haven't observed any noticeable effect yet. I've had folks tell me it needs to be 87, or even higher. I don't know. But could this, being a level 80 skill, require at least 80 to be effective? I doubt it, but it's possible. Destruction did say this evening in civil chat that he thought he'd seen Gwen's damage increase over time when she was still using that epic 99 bow set. I didn't think to ask him what her skill level was, but I'd bet it's at least level 80. And of course that's just observation from a 3X1 mob fight, with lots of damage indicators flying around, so it's hard to say if what he saw was necessarily coming from Gwen. Be nice to test Gwen as you tested yourself and I test myself.

You posted this topic exactly where it belongs. It's not in the "bug" section. No one has yet said this skill is broken and needs to be fixed. It's not in the "suggestion" section asking for a buff. It's in the "discussion" section, so folks who use the skill can compare notes to try to figure out what is happening. Maybe there is some secret to this skill that none of us have discovered yet. Maybe the skill is broken. We simply don't know.

This skill has the potential to be one of the best, if not the best, archer skill. Sure would be nice to know that it is worth sinking trophies into it.

TJ

[thatperson]

<insert random archers suck troll comment here>

i felt left out

@ tj with 64 temperance and 1500ish AC i actually observed a bloodlet of 1 from a great dam mob so i know that the skill works at lower levels also

ok done with off topicness yall can go back to fighting amoungst yourselves i think its quite funny

[chrisdj]

conqueror you have to need to be sorry you did the right thing

maybe i'm in error for openely chalenging glitless to respond to our posts and our findings
not in a couple of fights 1000's of fights 100's of hours of playing and in any of these including many prelonged battles not once has my max crit ever gone up by even lets say 10% if using the 91 88 78 set my highest recorded crit 987 so after 25 hits i would have expected to actualy crit over 1K and dont forget over 25 hits that should be a 25% bonus to max crit
and thats the whole point of this thread we asked politly we waited over a week with nothing back from glitchless
to i asked for a responce to explain whats going on and still nothing anybody would get frustraited with that, thats not whining we are asking for a responce on an issue that effects archers
anybody who doesn't use the skill or understand that we are getting no benfit from this skill shouldn't be posting in here
by the way 2 handers now reporting gleefuly high max crits of 3k pleased for you as even with this skill working as stated we would never get close to a bow shot of 3k!
lol actualy found a post of pk's funny!