Scammer Torakinclaws / Dragonoffate

[paultwloha]

Torak. PM me in game. I have yet to hear from you about you paying back.

[Horia]

Originally Posted by Alesandra

We will never know whether you were going to pay them back on your own

Exactly. So if we'll never know, what makes people so sure this was a scam all along? For the record, I do remember him talking about paying people back before the whole scandal really broke out. He had had this whole "preorder for 100k" deal for a while already and there are quite a few people who stated that they bought TCs from him like that and that he delivered.
There are enough things to hold against him already - of the real, serious, founded sort. And yes, there are still plenty of people who still haven't gotten their TCs, and that's seriously not ok. But I don't see much reason to think he started the whole thing out as a big swindle. What I do see, of late, is a lot of people in /civil, some of whom admit themselves that they barely ever exchanged a word with him back when he still had the Torakironclaw character, and who happily join in the shooting party when they see something like a target in front of them. (Note: not referring to Alesandra here, I have no idea if she did or didn't know him, nor to Gore and a few other players involved, who obviously did know him longer than I did.) Again, I'm NOT saying he's an innocent bunny, but how about shooting at real targets?

Well, I can do little at this point to prove otherwise of my intentions. But, I CAN still pay, and regardless of if anyone thinks it was a scam or not, It's not. When I pay off the debts, it won't matter, really.

On that matter I have 3 TC's in my possesion in a bit here. I'd have more, but they sell UGC's in 20$ increments, and I onl have 30$ to toss away right now.

I'll be online later to pay what I can as of tonight.

[Alesandra]

So, if it wasnt a scam...please expalin WHERE exactly the tcs that you promised went. Either A) you had no intention of giving tcs in the first place or B) You used the tcs yourself rather than deliver what you promised or C) You for some reason decided NOT to buy tcs, in which case you should have refunded all money. None of these scenarios make you look good because A) your a scammer B) Your a scammer and C) Your a scammer.

Discuss

I HAVE tried to explain things, only 200 times. I don't owe you, so to be blunt, I don't answer to you in the least.

Thanks though, for adding to the drama, It really helps.

The list again:

Kingjoey (2)
Notadrow (1)
Migleyy (1)
Krylov (1)
Arceneaux (1 *new*)
Moirathea (2) (payed off)
Gorefist (1)
Givvi (1)
Sarek (1)


(((Some are alts)))

As for time line, well,

3 tommorow,
3 Thursday

3 Monday, Tuesday, and Friday (if not more due to the over flow of the UGCs)

[Misguided]

ban Torak? ban his alts?

Glitchy said scamming is punishable, and bans one guy for misleading others?
I guess my post is truly a question....WHY IS THAT NOOB THAT STOLE 2 DIFFERENT TOONS STILL ALLOWED TO PLAY? cant think of his name off hand...Deville's son?? stole from someone by tking all their gear, then stole another to DM for the gear.....and yet he is allowed to play

[Misguided]

P.S. Torak, can i haz a "pre-order" of 500000000000000000000000 TCs, i promise ill back you 150k each on 12/ 25/ 2025

[Moirathea]

From what I've seen in psychology, once people get an idea stuck in their minds, they cling to it, and in spite of new evidence, they cling to the original idea, and fixate until they can't remember why they believed it to begin with, but they still cling to it.

I think a ton of people came into this pandemonium with the verdict already sealed. The two jury benches were placed, and people have seated themselves on one side, and shot fireworks until they turned blue in the face. Even people who were not originally involved came in and poured kerosene on the fire. "Flaming" is not a solution.

Nobody can go back in time and mind-read why everyone did everything. I would ask that everyone involved now in this thread or situation, reflect on how YOU have acted, regardless of what Torak has said or done. How many times have YOU jumped to a conclusion because you were eager to see justice, or drama, or revenge?

People can argue this back and forth, but from what I have read, most people blame Torak for starting the "pre-order" service in the first place. While it seems unstable, sure, what point is there in demeaning him over and over for something that's frozen in the past, inaccessible, static, immutable, and gone? If it is true that he merely had difficulty returning people's investments, or that he thought too quickly and was not organized, how much punishment is enough? Everyone with whom he traded had to agree, so, in a way, it's not blind stealing. Sure, some people agree without acknowledging the consequences, but I think people are doing more harm than good by trying to permanently ban someone who is a human being, has personal struggles, and extended human trust just like anyone else would. So, he messed up.

Are you going to be part of the solution, or part of the prolonging of the problem?

People hold grudges for years, but an old proverb says that "Holding on to anger is like holding on to hot coals, with the intent to throw them at someone, but they only burn the holder."

Other people would be forgiven for hospital stays, traumatic accidents, financial difficulties, or minor setbacks, and while we may not know the cause of the long delay, we have no right to pry into somebody else's personal life. If it were a friend of yours, you would give them as much time as they needed.

I don't think it's a pleasant experience to be hated, avoided, and demeaned by the majority of a community. In fact, such treatment would encourage someone to hide away in solitude. You can't expect someone to happily pay back debts with lightning speed if a whole bunch of people are breathing down his neck. Most of the people in this thread probably already believe he'll never change or repay the debts, and nothing he is saying is changing their minds. When he does repay any debt, bitter people may still frown upon him, call him a scammer, and avoid him like the plague.

That bad attitude toward him is not a reflection of what he does or what he deserves, but a reflection of a public grudge, public anger, and a huge maelstrom of scrutiny. People could write him off as a criminal; wicked, shameless, deserving of nothing but rejection, but really, that's because of their own bitterness. Most wouldn't even give him the chance to improve, and it will be very hard for him to regain any sense of good reputation. That's just it: reputation, what people "think" about him. Notice the "people's" role in that? Don't hold on to bygone mistakes and bitterness. Clear the slate, and have the heart to get past this drama.

He just repaid me the two time cards he owed me, but I'm not "placated" or soothed by that. I don't feel a sense of calm, having gotten what I wanted. In fact, I'm distressed at the mass hysteria that came about, and for what? Bragging rights? Power struggles? My debt has been repaid to me, by the person who owed it to me, and yet, he and I have experienced great losses, which cannot be so easily repaid by money. I am bothered that he was banned, because my intent was never to hurt him in such a way. I merely wanted the debts to be paid, but the mass drama makes receiving the debt feel less gratifying. By principle, of course, debt should be repaid, but the cost of repaying that has been too much. Too much fire has been hurled. I am not happy. Torak surely isn't happy, even if his intentions were crystal clear, and he just thought too quickly to organize back up plans for repayment. Reality may have gotten in the way. We cannot know.

In spite of everything that has happened, Torak wants to quit, and I want to quit, because I have no joy in a game where the wars run over the boundaries of the gaming world and into the players themselves. Too many people want revenge, and it's not even the kind you get by killing a clan enemy or PKing/PKKing someone.

I vote to give him the time to enact the policies which he has set forth, and provide him with amnesty (including the ceasing of insults and flames) upon completion of these repayments. I also vote to remove the banning at the same point. I don't see how people can be so overjoyed if they're angry all the time.

I forgive him for everything, and I know I'm just one person, but I feel strongly that he deserves better than this madness.

[paultwloha]

Well said Moirathea.

[thatperson]

very well said

[Horia]

I'm with that too. Funny how when an easy target is thrown in everyone gets all vigilante. "Oh, but you've commited unspeakable crimes, let's all gather and speculate! Don't let him off the hook, he's so fun to play with!" Somehow, I think correctness isn't achieved quite so easily.
I also stand with Moira on the last part. When all is paid off, I see no point in bad blood staying. It's each person's choice whether to trust him again or not, but let's not go on a happy witch hunt.

I was one of the people who preordered TCs from Torak, I was also the first person he paid back after the whole "scam" drama developed. If someone who has been banned is going through the effort of paying people back through a lvl 1 what they are owed even though he doesn't have to do jack **** now, then they should be given another chance.

[Enduir]

This in the internet. People paid pretend gold for pretend items that were not pretend delivered as pretend promised. ALL WE DEMAND IS A PRETEND HANGING!

[Sleepingfox]

Originally Posted by Enduir

This in the internet. People paid pretend gold for pretend items that were not pretend delivered as pretend promised. ALL WE DEMAND IS A PRETEND HANGING!

nodiatis is serius bissness

Originally Posted by Enduir

This in the internet. People paid pretend gold for pretend items that were not pretend delivered as pretend promised. ALL WE DEMAND IS A PRETEND HANGING!

Awesome. I smiled at this one.

Well, I guess all you people would like to know the plan so far.
I get 30$ Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday too I think. (Don't ask)

...You do the math.

I'll be out of debt pretty fast here, I wonder what you will say then? I hate to sound.....brash; but I am not a scammer, and that point will be driven home. Also, I didn't take TC's and owe gold, I was selling TC's in advance for 100K each, so that people could save gold.

I ****ed up.

Now I'm fixing it.

....And really, What else would an honest dragon do? If Anything, this should prove I am 100% ****ing good for what I say I will do. Life can get in the way - that's life. But in the end, I only got my word and my balls.

And I REFUSE to break either for anyone.

[Sleepingfox]

you know, morietha pritty much ended the thing...your kinda starting it back up again with all your * words.

I'm also notadrow in-game, and I would like my TC as soon as can be done...