Whip Nerf Poll

Nerfs are a bad choice. Rather buff other builds slightly over time to compensate for it. Maybe give other BM skills a partial use without whips like the F&I Buff.

Nerfing a build is a bad choice at all times, it punishes those players who spent the time and effort to build their characters in a certain way.

Look at how horrible OP casters are in PvP I see a plethora of Casters hitting for 5k+ on crits. No Melee build dose 5k+ in one shot.

God Nem ur hot

[Ripple]

With a Gem or Aura even PvP beastmasters can nerf each other

[God Stomper]

Originally Posted by Destruction

Both Pvp and Pve need to be nerfed for whip users. When 1 strong whip user can solo a lvl 90 boss whereas a balanced, non-whip using FULL team cannot handle the same boss there is something horribley wrong.

P.S.-I use whips because I know how OP'ed they are. They DESERVE to be nerfed.

Uhmm.... Highest boss solo on tops is a pierce user (or was at the time of the kill)

[Destruction]

Originally Posted by God Stomper

Uhmm.... Highest boss solo on tops is a pierce user (or was at the time of the kill)

I never said anything about a "highest" boss kill. You are missing my point.

[Palehorserider]

Whip users also use more skill so that makes the extra power fare. The more skill the more power! The planning [learning skills}and money into 2 chars that are whip users will have been for nothing. OP players have moved toward whips making whip appear stronger. Please don't do this.

[Barsoom]

Originally Posted by Emperor006

IMO, 2 changes are necessary:
1. Change the numbers on fire & ice. 25 - 50% max instead of 100% max to pull off both an attack & heal. They should either be able to hit like a mofo or heal like a mofo -- not both at once.
2. Reduce the amount of "whip-only" skills. Extending the skills to other builds at lessened efficiency should bring back balance without nerfing anything too much.

Agree with #2

I'm a ranger, not a whip user, but I have some sympathy with those players who have invested heavily in a diverse group of skills (magic users would be another group). The trick is, as emperor put it, is to extend the skills to other [narrower] builds. It may be that this extends out PvP duels but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Originally Posted by Cathrine

Nerfs are a bad choice. Rather buff other builds slightly over time to compensate for it. Maybe give other BM skills a partial use without whips like the F&I Buff.

Nerfing a build is a bad choice at all times, it punishes those players who spent the time and effort to build their characters in a certain way.

Look at how horrible OP casters are in PvP I see a plethora of Casters hitting for 5k+ on crits. No Melee build dose 5k+ in one shot.

Agreed 100% here

[Shadowfx]

I agree with giving non-whip users the benefits of Fire & Ice but all this "nerf" casters is pissing me off... YES casters can do a tremendous amount of damage in one hit BUT caster CANNOT use a shield or bow and quiver for more enchants like melee users can. A caster's best defense is the offense they have been given. Caster's are not OP'd in PvP against ANYONE with a descent defense skill. Furthermore, build a capped out caster and see what it takes to be able to pull off the 2k+ hits... PS NO CASTER CAN CRIT FOR OVER 5K... NONE OF THEM. If you saw what it took to get an even decent caster at the current cap you would probably quit halfway through.

[Faithfulservant]

Make pets be harm-able,or kill-able in battle.

[cyric]

pple choose to use whips cus they want to and cus whips are strong but every class has its advantage
dnt make this game as easy as happy families or snap jesus leave us some challanges -_-

[Kerrlahg]

I vote for careful adjustment to a couple skills. The premise of the BM build type and who gets to use which skills is good. The numbers just need a little adjustment. Please be sure to thoroughly test the new values before it goes live though, this is a very touchy subject with whippers.

Some of the skill effect percentages just need to be realigned; underpowered BMs do not need to be nerfed. Some of the skills need to have diminishing returns, for example: Fire and Ice, after it's level 50, could increase the percentage by half the going rate (.5% and .25%, instead).

a stat skill might solve this 1% less healing for you and your enemy for every skill level down to 0... fair play

Originally Posted by God Stomper

Casters > whip users > other dw > shield user > caster

Whips > Casters > Crush > Slash/Bow > Pierce > Shield when not defending Arch or Magic

Originally Posted by beetdabrat

Shield:

Guardian + whip

12% max class bonus
25% blocking
5% shell

20% parry
10% growl
10% stun

Chance for damage negation = 1 - ((1 - .12) * (1 - .25) * (1 - .05) * (1 - .2) * (1 - .1)

= 1 - (.88 * .75 * .95 * .8 * .9)

= 1 - .45144

= 54.856%

Tactician + whip

bonus 9% parry
25% blocking
5% shell

20% parry
10% growl
10% stun

Chance for damage negation = 1 - ((1 - .09) * (1 - .25) * (1 - .05) * (1 - .2) * (1 - .1)

= 1 - (.91 * .75 * .95 * .8 * .9)

= 1 - .46683

= 53.317%

Others + whip

25% blocking
5% shell

20% parry
10% growl

Chance for damage negation = 1 - ((1 - .25) * (1 - .05) * (1 - .2) * (1 - .1)

= 1 - (.75 * .95 * .8 * .9)

= 1 - .513

= 48.7%

No Shield:

Tactician DW whips

bonus 9% parry
20% parry
20% dual parry
10% growl x2

Chance for damage negation = 1 - ((1 - .09) * (1 - .2) * (1 - .2) * (1 - .1) * (1 - .1)

= 1 - (.91 * .8 * .8 * .9 * .9)

= 1 - .471744

= 52.8256%

DW Whips

20% parry
20% dual parry
10% growl x2

Chance for damage negation = 1 - ((1 - .2) * (1 - .2) * (1 - .1) * (1 - .1)

= 1 - (.8 * .8 * .9 * .9)

= 1 - .5184

= 48.16%

DW Non whips

20% parry
20% dual parry

Chance for damage negation = 1 - ((1 - .2) * (1 - .2)

= 1 - (.8 * .8)

= 1 - .64

= 36%

Two handed Weapon

20% parry

= 20%

Bows

20% kiting

= 20%

Then you have the unknown dodge chance (misses).

Beet Da Brat

[tamik]

ok so if option 2 wins i want it to be a ability/skill and not a gem

Originally Posted by Shadowfx

I agree with giving non-whip users the benefits of Fire & Ice but all this "nerf" casters is pissing me off... YES casters can do a tremendous amount of damage in one hit BUT caster CANNOT use a shield or bow and quiver for more enchants like melee users can. A caster's best defense is the offense they have been given. Caster's are not OP'd in PvP against ANYONE with a descent defense skill. Furthermore, build a capped out caster and see what it takes to be able to pull off the 2k+ hits... PS NO CASTER CAN CRIT FOR OVER 5K... NONE OF THEM. If you saw what it took to get an even decent caster at the current cap you would probably quit halfway through.

Sorry but I saw casters at 70 critting 2k+ And have personally been hit by a 4.9k crit. (double cast dual crit FYI) Don't go crying about people not enjoying watching 1/2 their life meter in one blow. I use whips and am not going down the self righteous "We are not that bad" theme.

Whips can be very good heals, though personally I do way less damage since I went to them. All that people are pointing out is that awesome healing is not the only OP thing in PVP or PvE in this game.

The worst thing to do in this situation is to overcompensate. It invalidates builds and pisses players off. A calm and well thought response to it would be a better solution.

I voted for option number 1.

I dont use whips and havent duelled recently anyone with whips -however I heard lots of stories about it.

If we stop here for a second and think of the time and work that needs to be done to buff ALL other classes or some other skills to be able to compete with Beastmasters and compare it to a simple PERCENTAGE CHANGE OR little altering of heal numbers on BMs - i think we all see the point.

If some still dont see the point - think of how thin that red line is when buffing other classes not to make them too overbuffed or too good again.

As whip users were ridiculed like casters before, they got their buff, but, in my opinin, a little too much.

So rather remove or change their effects rather then altering most of the other classes again. Some of the experienced players here had their say on BM skills altering already in this thread.

We need to find balance in between the classes and not have just groups of classes formed by melee,archer,etc principle. We have almost 30 classes in game for crying out loud they all should be nice and unique. But thats a different story.

I am full time shield user now and so far i dont see myself being able to compete against any melee char with very fast attacks, double attacks and all other skills. But im not complaining.

Originally Posted by Palehorserider

Whip users also use more skill so that makes the extra power fare. The more skill the more power!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I took from this that whippers are great because they have more skills to raise -- an understandable argument that has been raised many times in past discussions.

However, if this is, indeed, your argument, you've missed something very important: By that very same logic, a DoT caster build should also be exceedingly powerful, seeing as they have just as many build-specific skills to raise as a whipper build. Exactly how many of them have you seen?

Like Kerr said, the skills just offer a little too much bang for the buck.

[Kerrlahg]

Originally Posted by Emperor006

By that very same logic, a DoT caster build should also be exceedingly powerful, seeing as they have just as many build-specific skills to raise as a whipper build. Exactly how many of them have you seen?

Completely off-topic, but Glitchless has stated very recently that with tests he has done, similarly equipped and skilled ofc, a DoT caster beat the DD caster 9 times out of 10.

[Conqueror]

There is a very simple solution to this Glitchless:

Don't nerf anyone. Nerfing will just piss people off.

Instead make it so that the loyalty and taming skills give a certain percentage to non whip users.

Give non whip users a certain percentage in all of the beast mastery skills in fact. After all, everyone uses pets whether they use whips or not.

Whip users should have higher percentages than non whip users. The goal should be that whips (lower damage weapons) + high pet abilities is relatively balanced with melee/ranged (higher damage weapons) + somewhat lower pet abilities.

Beast mastery skills should give a certain percentage to everyone (everyone uses a pet). Whip users, however, should get a somewhat higher percentage.

Whoever brought up the caster issue is correct too but I won't go into it in this thread.

Cheers