Underpowered/Overpowered? Vote here.

[RogueTigeR]

YAY Celebrate!!!

[brow]

That may have been good to mention a bit earlier, how could you seriously NOT expect people to freak out expecting a nerf?

Anyway, you're comparing classes now to dmg types in the poll. How exactly does that work? Every class can use any weapon, some at a SLIGHT advantage yes. Does the fact that DW seems to be popular make my crappy regener any better? No. Oh I get 15% more regen, that amounts to, oh, 1 or 2 extra points of regen in combat with skills up. My caster is a priest who gets a bonus to ... healing. Wow. Even if you gave priests a 50% bonus to healing they'd still only be useful in a group situation.

I think something most people have learned in playing nod is a good offense is the best defense. The faster you kill, the less you have to worry about healing and/or regen. At a certain point unless you are fighting something WAYYY beyond you, healing and regen are hardly even a factor.

Class bonuses need to be something that isn't easily exceed-able by a single rune, gem, piece of armor, leveled-up skill, etc. Let's see, what classes seem to be the most popular ... Warrior (dmg bonus) weaponmaster (dmg bonus) dark knight (pvp dmg bonus, det aura bonus), Paladin (rez, HUGE aura bonus), Beastmaster (HUGE pet bonus), Vamp (combat heals) not sure on casters .. probably whichever ones offer dmg bonus to skills (Jeweler anyone? Hmm how bout I just get a gem haste aura, and a gem haste rune? just went way beyond jeweler class skill)

Now obviously these things can stack, but obviously they stack better for the classes that have combat (especially damage related) bonuses. Classes you want to change would be the ones who don't get combat bonuses or that are mediocre.

You've made some cool changes for whip/pet users, a few nice adds for casters (though they could use more) .. Archery, Shield, and 2H users could use some definite upgrades .. blah blah this is becoming unorganized and incoherent even more than it already was. Peace.

Jeff it would be wise to restart the poll seeing as how Archers werent here when 50% of the votes were cast.

i find it ridiculously amusing that more people voted for healers as overpowered than two-handers.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Pasterqb

Jeff it would be wise to restart the poll seeing as how Archers werent here when 50% of the votes were cast.

He added archers about 15 seconds after poll was made.
I posted almost instantly, before he even announced this thread. Saying "you forgot archers". Woulden't sweat it.

Originally Posted by brow

I think something most people have learned in playing nod is a good offense is the best defense. The faster you kill, the less you have to worry about healing and/or regen

Yeah, that's what Glitchless calls a "glass cannon"... we are all one, we were forced into this.

Archers, I've had some VERY bad experences with Uber Archers, they Pwn you in several seconds.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

The purpsose of the poll is to determine player perception so we can draw players to less played classes with attractive skills. We will not be nerfing anyone.

I was close, I just figured this Poll was made in order to determine the strength of classes, and use this thread in conjunction with Skills of the Adept on sep21st to add skills accordingly so that no class becomes over or under powered further.
Which is why I didn't phreak out like some of the others, looks like Glitchless is finding better ways of fixing things instead of utilizing nerfs. We should be happy.

Originally Posted by Glitchless

The purpsose of the poll is to determine player perception so we can draw players to less played classes with attractive skills. We will not be nerfing anyone.

How about a new skill for jewellers called 'Gem affinity' or something, where the gems in the 5th-7th gem slots are given an increase percentage chance to be drawn based on the level of the skill. This could be a lvl 20 skill.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

The purpsose of the poll is to determine player perception so we can draw players to less played classes with attractive skills. We will not be nerfing anyone.

Sorry, you're just a forum admin, not the game programmer.

I'd rather wait and see what actually eventuates rather than take your word for it.

Well I'm happy to see that pretty much everyone agrees that healers like me totally suck and don't stand a chance in PvP.

I happen to like playing as a support player in a group. I never cared much for PvP, and totally changing my build just so I can be better in PvP isn't the point of what healers are all about. If a healer is to be overpowered in PvP they should be able to heal nearly as fast as they get hurt.

In my opinion.

Originally Posted by Relic

I was close, I just figured this Poll was made in order to determine the strength of classes, and use this thread in conjunction with Skills of the Adept on sep21st to add skills accordingly so that no class becomes over or under powered further.
Which is why I didn't phreak out like some of the others, looks like Glitchless is finding better ways of fixing things instead of utilizing nerfs. We should be happy.

you're absolutely right we should be happy, you know I'm trilled that glitchless is looking into what he can do in the next 3 days to make all classes desirable to play by adding skills for them.

[Morrodin]

I'm very excited about the new skills, you could even say ecstatic. The fact that these new skills are coming out and the level cap is being raised is probably the only reason I'm still playing today, that is how pissed i was about the mobs having 6 daze gems and that i didn't draw 1 of 8 that i have in my pouch the slots 2-4 being Aura of lucidity.

I am only mid lvl 30s, and I believe the strongest class type varies through the level ranges, but observations thus far:

2H weapons are barely used at all after lvl 20, would be nice to see them buffed somehow so they are as good an option as DW.

from 20-mid 30s DW slashers
then DW crushers after that

I have a pretty good build as a ranger but getting owned by DW crushers and have spent ages collecting combats to get all secondary archery skills high.

I gather BMs with DW whips are seen as overpowered later (saw vid of relic vrs Skeltchi (sp??) on youtube which testified to this.

I'd agree that DD casters may be seen as overpowered as many characters may neglect skills which would help them resist magic effects. But then again I also feel that the cnt/ resistance bonuses aren't really sufficient compared with the 1000+ DD that can be done later on. That's a 4-5 hit kill even at 70.

To all of the Angels proposing they "suck" the most:

Angels have a class bonus to WHITE MAGIC effects.

That means heals AND DD GEMS.

I have a level 10 healer, and with level 10 in CE,a gem that normally maxes out at around 15, now deals around 17 or 18 and can deal up to 32 with crits.

Not to mention that my immediate heals (10 point heal) did 11 at level 3 CE, now imagine my CE and CS at 20 using Gradual Repairs and Gaia's. I could be getting around 3+ points per Gradual Repair used, effectively increasing my healing capabilities as compared to other class. Now, if you had a significant pool of mana AND energy, you could out pace a warrior with 2 ZCs. Why? Because ZCs are slow, giving you chances to further inflict tons of damage and heal impressively at the same time.

Now if you increased those 20+ skills that further enhance your heals, then you can be force to be reckoned.

20 CE and 20 CS will increase the effects of your heals AND DD gems, and white gems are nothing to sneeze at to begin with, add some bonuses to them, get a decent PvP build, and you have nothing to complain about.

Using healing pets can only help you.

[brow]

Originally Posted by sherman

To all of the Healers proposing they "suck" the most:

Healers have a class bonus to WHITE MAGIC effects.

That means heals AND DD GEMS.

I have a level 10 healer, and with level 10 in CE,a gem that normally maxes out at around 15, now deals around 17 or 18 and can deal up to 32 with crits.

Not to mention that my immediate heals (10 point heal) did 11 at level 3 CE, now imagine my CE and CS at 20 using Gradual Repairs and Gaia's. I could be getting around 3+ points per Gradual Repair used, effectively increasing my healing capabilities as compared to other class. Now, if you had a significant pool of mana AND energy, you could out pace a warrior with 2 ZCs. Why? Because ZCs are slow, giving you chances to further inflict tons of damage and heal impressively at the same time.

Now if you increased those 20+ skills that further enhance your heals, then you can be force to be reckoned.

20 CE and 20 CS will increase the effects of your heals AND DD gems, and white gems are nothing to sneeze at to begin with, add some bonuses to them, get a decent PvP build, and you have nothing to complain about.

Using healing pets can only help you.

*sigh*

You speak reasonably eloquently, but as usual you're talking out of your ass. First off, there is no healer class. What you are is an ANGEL. Yes, angels get a bonus to white magic, great for DDs. PRIESTS on the other hand, get a bonus to nothing but healing.

Are you seriously going to compare a 5% healing (or even DD for angels) bonus to the dmg output of ZCs? Let's look at a few simple facts: ZCs never run out of dmg, a 'healer' does run out of mana/energy. Even if you were to come remotely close to healing the dmg of ZCs til you were out of mana/energy, the only way to do that would be to use nothing but heal gems. An occasional swipe with a staff combined with heals won't come close to comparing with dual ZCs.

The simple fact of the matter is when maxing out, healing (especially single large heals) becomes nearly irrelevant. Level 80 zones can be taken on by people with no more than a few Gaia gems and auras. Sadly I don't know of a decent way to make healing more viable without nerfing players or over-buffing monsters (which would be a nerf in and of itself)

the very idea of healers states that they will not be doing damage, so it stands to reason that they'd be underpowered. nevertheless, they are important to have in a group in just about every mmo that exists. they just...suck to play. much as i agree with the healers-are-underpowered complaint, there's really no viable way to fix it without undermining the very idea of healers as healers.

and much as i agree that sherman talks out of his hindquarters, there's really no way to fix that either without undermining the very idea of forum trolls.

Originally Posted by brow

*sigh*

You speak reasonably eloquently, but as usual you're talking out of your ass. First off, there is no healer class. What you are is an ANGEL. Yes, angels get a bonus to white magic, great for DDs. PRIESTS on the other hand, get a bonus to nothing but healing.

Are you seriously going to compare a 5% healing (or even DD for angels) bonus to the dmg output of ZCs? Let's look at a few simple facts: ZCs never run out of dmg, a 'healer' does run out of mana/energy. Even if you were to come remotely close to healing the dmg of ZCs til you were out of mana/energy, the only way to do that would be to use nothing but heal gems. An occasional swipe with a staff combined with heals won't come close to comparing with dual ZCs.

The simple fact of the matter is when maxing out, healing (especially single large heals) becomes nearly irrelevant. Level 80 zones can be taken on by people with no more than a few Gaia gems and auras. Sadly I don't know of a decent way to make healing more viable without nerfing players or over-buffing monsters (which would be a nerf in and of itself)

At lower levels though, the ZCs are quite slow.

If you get around 26 in black magic, you can get a 10% slow rate added to them, via the aura of sloth or lethargy, further slowing them down. You can also get gemhaste to further your damage output. Now, at around level 20 Eternity, my Gradual Repairs, which healed for 6 and 8, now heal for 7 and 9, respectively. With an added 5%+ to that, those gems could easily heal for an 8 and 10, or even higher. Even Gaia's are a viable choice, at around 22 Eternity ranks 5 gaia's now heal for 6, instead of 5, and that is with a warrior.

The DDs, with 20 CE and CS on an angel, could easily keep up with the average ZC user.

Now, I am not saying that Angels will be able to always kill a ZC user, or even take on every ZC user, but they can still remain competitive.

Yes, mana and energy pools do pose a problem, but with decent skills, DDs and energy/mana heals, pose a threat.

At around level 20, DDs are starting to shine in PvP and PvE to an extent.

Once again, I am not saying that Angels will always be able to win, but they should be able to stay competitive. Definitely when compared to the BC range.

i can kill angels. easily. and i suck. horribly. level 20's can beat me.

Mages are weak in the beginning ^.^

[brow]

My point wasn't the viability of mages in combat, we know that built well they can be a force, especially later in the game. What my point IS, is that a simple bonus to nothing but healing (priests) compared to most other class bonuses, is pretty pathetic.

So as not to just whine about it, I will make a few suggestions, and I would NOT suggest just a flat increase to their already weak class skill. Suggestions:

Give priests a % chance to heal all group members (similar to the new skill). However this is only viable for group combat/pvp, definitely not the best option.

Add a % chance for a secondary effect when casting a heal. Such as: Every X% of heals will also cause a fading dmg absorption shield of Y amount to be placed on the recipient. It's very "priestly" in nature don't ya think?

In-combat resurrection?



I totally understand adding new class skills has to be done carefully as to not disrupt balance for other classes, my point is that there are definitely a lot of classes who could use a boost, and something other than just an added percentage to what they already have.