Bandaid Part II

[klawer]

Originally Posted by Ideaman

I didn't use a single prevent gem to never lose to casters. Again, learn how to counter. And no, you're just spouting a bunch of nonsensical ideas/thoughts out here that are 100% untrue. Just setting the record straight.

Right, right, you went to their house and shot them in the face right? OF COURSE!

Very cute really. But, I think it is sad you gotta resort to lies. Oh well.

[Tsutsu]

Originally Posted by klawer

I did go look, and in that post I said last season, only one real bm was in the top 10. Yes, other seasons there was a variation, in the top 10, with more or less bms being top 10. And, yet only ONE real bm type was in the last top 10 season, and you STILL want kokos nerfed.
Keep in mind, that DL had t7/t8 koks, and again, you want koks nerfed, because you couldn't win?!?!
Nope, not when double casting dots can be left out there, being so completely OP in pvp.
Casters need a huge nerf. A staff dotter can switch to healing at will. And, of course, that is not unbalanced?!

Just saying, both of the people you're speaking to HAVE won arena AS a bm. Also on top of that DL didn't try to compete. barely any BM's have been competing in these formats. Do you even do arena?

[Tsutsu]

Originally Posted by klawer

Right, right, you went to their house and shot them in the face right? OF COURSE!

Very cute really. But, I think it is sad you gotta resort to lies. Oh well.

At what point have I lied about anything? you're some noob who has never been relevant in what you're speaking about. Learn how to play the game before you voice opinions.

[klawer]

Originally Posted by Huggles

This lack of variation means one of three things:
-Kok is overpowered
-Other whips are underpowered
-All these people are retarded for using Kok

Gotta ask the same about dd caster though...

So, why most people go with siren/thraki + opal quiver + fang spear, or a variation of kriss/double casting sword?

Don't think anyone that does that is retarded, you simply optimize your gear for best result. There are only a few good melee weapons, as well. So, people using the same cudgel are all numbskulls?

You act as If choosing the best gear is wrong because you can't win and wait for others to roll down, and let you win...

Either set everything to where people can have the same amount of attacks so they can really strategize and make everything count, or accept that while a caster can exceed at something, that set up can't always work. And, a lot else in influence the match,

[klawer]

Originally Posted by Ideaman

At what point have I lied about anything? you're some noob who has never been relevant in what you're speaking about. Learn how to play the game before you voice opinions.

Oh my, I am so sad right now!!!! Oh no, I have never been relevant, really? I will go jump off of the top of the bridge, for sure... Or die laughing at you, whichever comes first.

Again, trying to pick up a fight so hard to prove something with personal insults are we? Shows how much you are worth hehe,

[Tsutsu]

Originally Posted by klawer

Oh my, I am so sad right now!!!! Oh no, I have never been relevant, really? I will go jump off of the top of the bridge, for sure... Or die laughing at you, whichever comes first.

Again, trying to pick up a fight so hard to prove something with personal insults are we? Shows how much you are worth hehe,

You're the one coming in here insulting people, I simply corrected the fact that you claimed NOT ONCE HAS A BM WON ARENA. when in fact you're HORRIBLY WRONG ABOUT THAT POINT. Because either 1 you did 0 research, or 2 you're talking out of your ass. which is it? on topic, he said one of the three, not all three. So again, do you know how to read?

Also, you can counter casters easily. It just takes a little bit of thought, and multiple setups to counter. Nod isn't hard.

[klawer]

Originally Posted by Ideaman

Speaking from the viewpoint of a BM who has won arena, do you even know how to read? lol

Of course, of course, you simply corrected a fact, righttttt, and then it suddenly degenerated into how I am completely irrelevant and noob, and can not voice my opnion in the following posts, right?

See, you can't win, and because you were a champion once, you can't accept that you it appearantly not gonna happen anymore, and need to weaken any competition so you can be passable?

Now, while it may or may not be true, that is what your attitude and bravado shows, imo. However, opnions are biased.

I am stating that casters have a distinct advantage over other classes. They can go dd dc for pve, and change setups for staff dotter/healer. Any type of double casting should be nerfed, imo, And, while your heart warming chat did indeed make me have a very good idea of the type of person you are, those are the facts.

I do not need to say you are irrelevant, nor share my personal opnion about you to try and validate myself, again shows how much you are worth, and I can be truly appreciative of that.

Still, Aerial Dominion should be shared with all bow users, same way Growl was with all pet users. And, if you got any weapon/shield equipped, they should only get a possible total of 5%, Same basic idea of the upgraded growl.

It is about time BMs get a quad type of attack. Melee has one, archery has one, and casters are machine guns.

[ShadeDaScout]

gotta love when people spam walls of texts, where is glitch with his "closing thread cuz it got personal" when you ned him?:^]
and interestingly enough joanna went missing

[Tsutsu]

Originally Posted by klawer

Of course, of course, you simply corrected a fact, righttttt, and then it suddenly degenerated into how I am completely irrelevant and noob, and can not voice my opnion in the following posts, right?

See, you can't win, and because you were a champion once, you can't accept that you it appearantly not gonna happen anymore, and need to weaken any competition so you can be passable?

Now, while it may or may not be true, that is what your attitude and bravado shows, imo. However, opnions are biased.

I am stating that casters have a distinct advantage over other classes. They can go dd dc for pve, and change setups for staff dotter/healer. Any type of double casting should be nerfed, imo, And, while your heart warming chat did indeed make me have a very good idea of the type of person you are, those are the facts.

I do not need to say you are irrelevant, nor share my personal opnion about you to try and validate myself, again shows how much you are worth, and I can be truly appreciative of that.

Still, Aerial Dominion should be shared with all bow users, same way Growl was with all pet users. And, if you got any weapon/shield equipped, they should only get a possible total of 5%, Same basic idea of the upgraded growl.

It is about time BMs get a quad type of attack. Melee has one, archery has one, and casters are machine guns.

Alright bro, not once have I requested a nerf in this thread. bms can quad attack. Casting is very easily countered. You can just as easily "change your build" as anyone else in the game. So all of your points mean quite literally nothing. I'll never have a chance at winning again? Lol ok bud. Says the t1 scrub who again, has never been relevant in pvp. and NEVER will be. so again why are you even trying to voice any sort of opinion on this matter, when you quite frankly have ZERO say in the matter because you have NEVER been at a competitive point in the game. You have no idea how matches go for people who actually have builds capable of winning do you? no you're just some dude wearing t1, on top of that you're using raidens with a bm build. That alone tells me that you have 0 idea how to play this game. You're complaining about casters, get some CNT. Dotters a problem? get some CNT AND some BC gear. sorry that you feel you should only have to have 1 setup to beat everyone but that isn't how this game works. So again, until you can actually show me that you have ANY sort of idea what it is you're talking about kindly, learn how to let the people who do compete at the top try to balance the game further.

[klawer]

Originally Posted by Ideaman

Alright bro, not once have I requested a nerf in this thread. bms can quad attack. Casting is very easily countered. You can just as easily "change your build" as anyone else in the game. So all of your points mean quite literally nothing. I'll never have a chance at winning again? Lol ok bud. Says the t1 scrub who again, has never been relevant in pvp. and NEVER will be. so again why are you even trying to voice any sort of opinion on this matter, when you quite frankly have ZERO say in the matter because you have NEVER been at a competitive point in the game. You have no idea how matches go for people who actually have builds capable of winning do you? no you're just some dude wearing t1, on top of that you're using raidens with a bm build. That alone tells me that you have 0 idea how to play this game. You're complaining about casters, get some CNT. Dotters a problem? get some CNT AND some BC gear. sorry that you feel you should only have to have 1 setup to beat everyone but that isn't how this game works. So again, until you can actually show me that you have ANY sort of idea what it is you're talking about kindly, learn how to let the people who do compete at the top try to balance the game further.

Alrright then " bro "... that was pretty interesting, especially since you lie through your teeth. You are the one to demand BM kok nerfs at every corner, because YOU can not counter a single buil... That just shows your lack of capacity.

Now, if I spent the amount of money you have and still failed at ONE task with many builds possible, and at hand, like you have, I would have to say the only irrelevant person her is you, but, again, those are just opnions, bro... and opnions are cheap, less than a dime a dozen, really. But, at the least I did not have to spend a few thousand dollars to become irrelevant like you are.

As I see it though, you either prove you are that good and learn to counter that ONE single build, since you shared so much knowledge, or you will be pretty much admitting your self incompetence, bro... Learn to buid, get better, bro!

[Tsutsu]

Originally Posted by klawer

Alrright then " bro "... that was pretty interesting, especially since you lie through your teeth. You are the one to demand BM kok nerfs at every corner, because YOU can not counter a single buil... That just shows your lack of capacity.

Now, if I spent the amount of money you have and still failed at ONE task with many builds possible, and at hand, like you have, I would have to say the only irrelevant person her is you, but, again, those are just opnions, bro... and opnions are cheap, less than a dime a dozen, really. But, at the least I did not have to spend a few thousand dollars to become irrelevant like you are.

As I see it though, you either prove you are that good and learn to counter that ONE single build, since you shared so much knowledge, or you will be pretty much admitting your self incompetence, bro... Learn to buid, get better, bro!

I have countered bms. However since I HAVE won arena as a BM I think I have a good say in claiming when something is broken. Helkoks are broken, they are way too strong for a class that used to be middle of the ground dps and middle of the ground tankyness. Giving them MASSIVE damage on top of being one of the tankiest classes in the game is the issue here.

You say casters are just ohhhhh so op? They are unbelievably squishy in comparison, a.k.a Glass cannons. Their kit makes total sense. Also their damage can be MASSIVELY mitigated with a little tweaking to a build. You claim them to just be absolutely dominate in pvp? Go take a look at the tops list for this season, or the past seasons. How many double casters do you actually see on those lists?

Melee? the only reason melee is as good as it is, and the reason there is so many in the top 10 is because every single one of them has MULTIPLE suits/weps/pets etc.

If you're too ignorant to actually analyze something from a standpoint outside of it being your build and you not wanting to get nerfed I don't think you have any right to comment on it. I STILL have a bunch of bm's that use the whips yet I'm still all for them being nerfed. You know why? balance. I want balance in this game. In the current state of things there's only 1 setup that CAN beat absolutely everything in the game with VERY little changes to their build. Bm's, you know all the changes they need to be top notch for pvp? they need 4 pets and 2 arrows. that's it. That is the issue here, those whips give them the ability to compete with absolutely every other build in the game with just 2 arrows and 4 pets. There is no other build in this game that has that sort of advantage over everything else.

Ahh the wallet warrior insult. Do you have any idea how much money I have spent on this game? I don't think you do. I reckon I don't even sit in the top 40 for money spent on this game. However you're welcome for supporting the game when you so obviously cannot do so.


I do not care for this format, nor do I care for 3v3 anon the only one I really care about is 3v3 premade and even then I do not care most seasons on my main. for 3v3 premade. Bm's are the #1 pick for dps, do you know why? They have some VERY strong advantages available to exactly ZERO other builds.

[klawer]

Originally Posted by Ideaman

I have countered bms. However since I HAVE won arena as a BM I think I have a good say in claiming when something is broken. Helkoks are broken, they are way too strong for a class that used to be middle of the ground dps and middle of the ground tankyness. Giving them MASSIVE damage on top of being one of the tankiest classes in the game is the issue here.

You say casters are just ohhhhh so op? They are unbelievably squishy in comparison, a.k.a Glass cannons. Their kit makes total sense. Also their damage can be MASSIVELY mitigated with a little tweaking to a build. You claim them to just be absolutely dominate in pvp? Go take a look at the tops list for this season, or the past seasons. How many double casters do you actually see on those lists?

Melee? the only reason melee is as good as it is, and the reason there is so many in the top 10 is because every single one of them has MULTIPLE suits/weps/pets etc.

If you're too ignorant to actually analyze something from a standpoint outside of it being your build and you not wanting to get nerfed I don't think you have any right to comment on it. I STILL have a bunch of bm's that use the whips yet I'm still all for them being nerfed. You know why? balance. I want balance in this game. In the current state of things there's only 1 setup that CAN beat absolutely everything in the game with VERY little changes to their build. Bm's, you know all the changes they need to be top notch for pvp? they need 4 pets and 2 arrows. that's it. That is the issue here, those whips give them the ability to compete with absolutely every other build in the game with just 2 arrows and 4 pets. There is no other build in this game that has that sort of advantage over everything else.

Ahh the wallet warrior insult. Do you have any idea how much money I have spent on this game? I don't think you do. I reckon I don't even sit in the top 40 for money spent on this game. However you're welcome for supporting the game when you so obviously cannot do so.


I do not care for this format, nor do I care for 3v3 anon the only one I really care about is 3v3 premade and even then I do not care most seasons on my main. for 3v3 premade. Bm's are the #1 pick for dps, do you know why? They have some VERY strong advantages available to exactly ZERO other builds.

See, there we go again. Casters are squishy because indeed, they chose tp massively out put damage, So they lack the defense, but can dps 2, 3 times more? So, by default they choose to be glass cannons, which limits them in pvp, but will get 2 to 3 times more gold, huh? As far I can see that is what you are saying here... Basically they should not be on the top 10, it is only reasonable, squishy, glass cannon and all. Those are your words not mine, and I will agree to that, as long as people like you don't come demanding nerfs, so that their power is scaled up. Otherwise nerf them to have the same pve kill speed, or just share the boosts, like aerial dominion , and create a quad pet attack. That would make a t1 bm farm just as fast as a t1 double caster. But, sharing the buffs with all other classes have is not fun nor fair, is it? Thus why all whip users got screwed with upgraded Growl and Carrot training. If everyone got something that was exclusive to BMs, a fair trade would be also having to pay for that somehow. . They are squishy because they chose to be. Give a t1 build that can outfarm them.

Now the really interesting part of the story.and those quoting your own statements... So in your own words, melee has many suits/weapons/builds, and bms only need 1 whip/2 pets and 2 arrows, That does not show how bms are overpowered though, it shows how the build is actually underpowered. The other whips are no good, and we don't have a variety of pets that can be useful to whip users ONLY. No, the good pets are useful to EVERY CLAAS. Let a bm try to cast an r20 gems, yeah, that might not fly. Let us try to cure or use LG gems, we CAN NOT. But, stalkers will vamp the same amount, mongos will regenerate the same amount of energy. No whip needed. But, melee completely sucks PVE they do not need a nerf. Even then a BM will not be able to quad kill someone with a dice, like a 2h melee user can pull at any given moment in the fight.

BMs do need weapons that will give them better benefits though and more versatility, maybe a whip that can trigger an effect with bleeding as rupture has with dots. That would be something worth combining with a kok.

And, you are mistaken about the wallet warrior thing, that is what keeps the game going. I am just saying that you are completely incapable of winning, and needs to nag at people who do better than you, because later on, you know you won't be able to beat them... I say later though, only because you had to use the " I don't care about this season, and that... ". Again, bro, since we are only exchanging opinions, and they are very cheap, not worth your wallet, really, you once more seem to have resorted to lies. because you lack skill. Me... Like you said, bro, I am a t1 scrub! So, since you " don't care ", and yet you still come to throw **** at people, and get others nerfed to have a chance at anything, what does that make you? A t5. 6. 7. scrub who " doesn't care " and still tries to cover for it?

What I said still stands, if anything, casters should be nerfed, if not for any other reason. so that the nod economy won't suffer from so much gold being farmed by them, causing inflation.

[Zodrack]

actual top 15 have 2 bm`s and 3 ww in it.. 7 melee aside of that 2 bm...rest being some sort of casterts( dot ..dd ...etc) so yeah kok is way to overpowered...in conclusion i subscrise to DL...get me a refund and remove them from my toon...remove them from game...delete BM`s from db...they are the only ones with op items..no fair for poor other types who doesent have nothing op beside tears

and btw...my 2x tier 5 koks doesent get me not even close to the dps/dmg i do with my noob toon that have a 2h slasher and tier 1 gear...so once again yeah...long live the OP kok

kok being best among the whips? probably yes...but all melee weaps are equal? or bows or any other class type items are equal?
all staffs are same? and i dont think any weapon made in this game can match the delay of some pets...deft dc is not even worth to mention here

[Glitchless]

Originally Posted by Huggles

Let's just assume that DW melee DPS and pet DPS are somewhat comparable.

That's a rather large assumption.


Having learned from past mistakes, our policy is to never directly nerf an LG item. Other whips may need buffs, but:

KoKs will not be nerfed.

[Brau]

Repost due to deletion of the post:
This is funny how the same person is arguing with himself.

I will not post again the part that i assume "affected" GlitchMaster.

[ShadeDaScout]

i love how kok defenders keep ignoring that no other whip is used and its pve superiority over melee and such."hurr durr it's not op in arena so it's perfectly balanced"

buff other lgs nao

[Joanna]

Originally Posted by Darklords

Also i feel offended for being called a retard. makes me feel on same level as pale / joanna

As far I can recall we never met in real life so why you assume I'm retarded ?

According to several laws about privacy policies you deliberately used my real name to defame me in public.

By doing so you put Glitchless in position where they need to take action as you broke their rules.

Just FYI. Online bullying / defaming is harder to get away with this days as there is so many authorities who loves fine Admins and/or drag them to court.

Glitchless is good with enforcing policies and laws and removing inappropriate content from civil part of forums.

Therefore even demigods can bleed.

Not being smart here or r**** like you called me - I just know a lot about policies (deal with it at work at daily basis) and certainly know how and where to escalate issues...

Disclaimer : I'm not affiliated with Glitchless nor speak behalf of it.

[Algamisu]

Originally Posted by Zodrack

actual top 15 have 2 bm`s and 3 ww in it.. 7 melee aside of that 2 bm...rest being some sort of casterts( dot ..dd ...etc) so yeah kok is way to overpowered...in conclusion i subscrise to DL...get me a refund and remove them from my toon...remove them from game...delete BM`s from db...they are the only ones with op items..no fair for poor other types who doesent have nothing op beside tears

Current arena rankings don't mean a whole since not everyone is trying very hard, yet at least. Most BM's and most melees archers just hit A/S and wait for the fight to end and most aren't using pvp potions. Also, there are no DD's in top 20

You have already benefited greatly for the ridiculous weapon which is kok so no need to go all melodramatic. There has been no other refunds previously when items have changed etc. I'm sure half the regeners would love refunds too due to some changes in the past.

and btw...my 2x tier 5 koks doesent get me not even close to the dps/dmg i do with my noob toon that have a 2h slasher and tier 1 gear...so once again yeah...long live the OP kok

I really would like to see you prove that in some way as I've been using a t3 2h slasher with t4 suit with 700 str and 500 dex and my t2 BM alt was dealing significantly more dps than the slasher with 450 str and dex. Being able to get lucky crit dice doesn't mean the avg dps is great.

kok being best among the whips? probably yes...but all melee weaps are equal? or bows or any other class type items are equal?
all staffs are same? and i dont think any weapon made in this game can match the delay of some pets...deft dc is not even worth to mention here

Ofc there are weapons that just are objectively better than the average weapon like miti hammer, dc spear and tomahammer, but none even come close to how ridiculously dominant koks are. You actually see people using different setups than that one single thing.

You don't see a whole lot of pure archers anymore because they get outclassed by the hybrid builds but even the few that still use that kind of build have various builds, some regen, some vamp, some want those large hits and some prefer the faster firing bows.

Even the DCDD's have have more variety in their builds than BM's. You see them go with shield+whip/1h, some even use dual wield. Even the bow isn't always the same.

Staff casters use various staves as well. Even though the introduction of staff of masquerade and then buffing it changed things, you still see spoil and misery, occasional staff of shielding and couple of eboners.

All the top melees have multiple weapons, multiple pets and even multiple suit pieces if not whole suits. (I have 4 weapons, 3 additional armor pieces, 4 sets of pets, 4 rune pages and 2 gem pouches myself that I use actively in arena)

When it comes to BM's you see nothing but a double koks with dt sleeves and legs and ds helm and bp and thraki bow, vamp quiver, fateseal arrow and stalkers as the pets +anti-regen arrow/pets.

Think a bit before you post stuff, please

[Brau]

Buff all LGs to match the 4% increase per tier, or at least 3%.
I would love to see a t5 tomahammer which pumps 30% melee speed or a t5 lod with 10%+ to double attacks.

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

That's a rather large assumption.


Having learned from past mistakes, our policy is to never directly nerf an LG item. Other whips may need buffs, but:

KoKs will not be nerfed.

I don't think it's that large of an assumption that if you were take the damage of two hammers and two pets vs two whips and two pets, the total sum of the damage would be close enough that you could say a hammer that buffs your DPS by 10% is not equal to a whip that buffs your DPS by 50%.

I understand the reluctance to nerf the item, and I hope we see some interesting buffs on the underused whips. Hit chance bonuses on their own are not procs, and it doesn't matter if you call it flashburn, curse, or anything else, a little bit of extra damage on some hits is boring too. (Masq is the only outlier, since it has more than just 'extra damage on hit').

Every new LG should make people think "Wow, this allows me to use so many new builds I couldn't've tried before!"

I can see the attempt there with doublecast gear, but the fact that there are no melee doublecasters is an indication of the shortcomings of that gear. Of course, some archery pieces will be used more by non-archers, and some melee pieces will be favoured by archers, but the fact that many melee weapons are used exclusively by archers shows that they simply do not mesh well with melee builds.

Of course, there's always the chance that, again, everyone is just stupid for using certain LGs/Builds and avoiding others.