The fate of little timmy

[NoRemorse]

i love the ideas ojn all pets actually ^^ well done but i bet numbers will be changed even if they have the same procs , i am sure glitch will consider similar things like this cause it even out with timmy

[Fior]

Why is needed to change a pet when Glitch can create a new lg pet with all that abilities ? :P

[Yadocxer]

I think Glitch wanted us to give ideals on how to improve the weaker less used pets for PVP. Below is what I copied from his post:
"Instead, we will be looking toward the other existing LG pets for ways to improve them, specifically in PvP, and especially those pets who are currently deemed the weakest. We believe that this could result in a dual benefit of helping BMs perform better in PvP as well as providing alternatives to Timmy."

1st question is: What makes one pet weaker/stronger than the next? Is it the number of Procs? Is it how the Procs interact with each other or with weapons, armor, class ability, class or how it affects your enemy or enemies? Is it how the pet functions in whatever situation the pet owner finds themselves in: such as 1v1 PvP (Duels, Clan Battles, Pking or Pkking), Arena PvP or whatever. Is it all of theses, some of these or none of theses. No matter what criteria you decide makes one pet stronger over another and how you would improve the 'weaker' pets to put them on par with the stronger pets, brings me to my second question/point.
2nd question: Do these changes met the needs Glitchless is trying to address (helping BMs perform better in PvP as well as providing alternatives to Timmy)? Or do these changes make the situation worst?
3rd question: Looking back at OA's post did she choose the weaker/weakest Pets and did her modifications/suggestions help correct the situation Glitch is trying to address or do they in fact acerbate the situation?
I think these three questions/points are important and should be considered in any/every suggestion to modify pets.
I would like to applaud Oa and give her a big thumbs up for being the first to post suggestions for pet modifications.
In my opinion though, she missed the mark set by Glitch and in fact some of her suggestions would make the Timmy, Mitigation, Regeneration (PvP) situation worst than it currently is.
I will post my suggestions later when I have the time to fully judge my suggestions by my above criteria.

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by Oneangel

Companion: also has 10% chance to cause a paranoid aura on target causing them to be unable to taunt for 5 seconds.

Dream stalker: also vamps energy and mana for 3%

Lizard: also increases your primary class bonus by 33%

Tommy: also gives 20% bonus to cure gems

Cuddlebug: also reduces gem shatter time by 75%

Squid: also has 20% chance to ignore mitigation

Dream Stalker: Why?

Lizard: Overpowered as **** (would make BM give 42.5% pet dmg bonus, 15% more than a regular BM)

Tommy: Makes sense

Cuddlebug: Overpowered (2x bugs would make shatter time 1/16th of normal)

Squid: Ambivalent

_______

My suggestions:
Cuddlebug: Destroys energy and mana equal to 6% of your pet damage.

Lizard: If your target is poisoned, this pet will always apply a poison effect when striking an enemy. This damage increases with Stalking.

Dream Stalker: Buffs Paladins.

[Killda]

i know this thread is about finding solutions for existing LG pets, but i just found the perfect proc for a new buffed pet to compete with the others after they get buffed, (values to be adjusted):

Legendary Dragon pet:
Damage: 10-100
Delay: 70
This pets gives you +10 in all base stats and +100 AC

[Oneangel]

Am liking all these other suggestions and improvements, keep em coming. I know my ideas might be way off the mark but at least gives a baseline to work from and the more we discuss, the more info glitch has to make his decisions on.

[jadedsoul]

how about a proc to add faded shield or a heal of xxx like some of the armor procs?

[crazysuicide]

i like this idea, would it be based on when you get attacked, or when the pet attacks?

[Yadocxer]

Glitch, could or would you please post Pet usage data in this thread so we can focus our imaginations on beefing up the least utilized pets? If not the data itself at least a list of the most used Pets? Sorta a Top 10 of the most used Pets. Thanks Sir. That would really help me focus on the task you set for us.

[Glitchless]

Both Timmy and the Dreamstalker are highly utilized. Tommy gets good usage.

The Venomback Lizard is the least used by far, but the Soul Devourer, Weasel, Armored Companion, and Honey Badger are also good candidates for bonuses.

[Skredperson]

support for badgers

[SiSiX]

...just a fading, memory...

[Enduir]

BUFF goes the weasel.

[crazysuicide]

you could also buff up these pets by changing the min. dmg from 10 to 1, and give the max dmg 9 more dmg, this would let them compete with stalkers in dps

[billyrules]

buff stalker moar

[Oneangel]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

Both Timmy and the Dreamstalker are highly utilized. Tommy gets good usage.

The Venomback Lizard is the least used by far, but the Soul Devourer, Weasel, Armored Companion, and Honey Badger are also good candidates for bonuses.

The problem with usage data is that it doesnt filter out those who just arena with their pve build for bonus and dont commit to pvp seriously. If you could do that you would see that stalkers and tommy are not used by any properly set up pve player. They are good pets for pve as do more dmg than timmy but are not effectively used in pve. I do agree that they need less of a buff than lizard or squid, but if they dont get some kind of improvement they wont be considered by anyone doing serious pvp. Please dont just look at the rating for this season, this season is far more affected by participation than strength (though ofc is is a big help to be a strong toon too).

[Fior]

Buff armored companion

[Darklords]

i personally would like to see an actual pet desiged for a bm not a hybrid class... stright up pet that goes hand to hand with a bm... 20 % heal pro on a tommy does nothing for me as a bm but it has the highest dps for farming...

[StormGuardian]

Making a pet specifically for one class is what makes them less utilized:

Devourer: hitting lowest target is worthless as non-caster...if they're almost dead, they're gonna die anyway. Purely a BM pet...not used.

Venomback: adding a little poison is great for flat dps...would actually be beneficial for all non-BMs as the highest(or really close to) dps pet...BUT...the added DPS from lizards wouldn't help non-BMs overall compared to other choices. So, basically purely a BM pet...not used.

Companion and Cuddlebug, are all beneficial to all classes equally, and are all used somewhat. Companion is(read, should) only be used by BMs(or archer/BM hybrids) who want some extra mit. Every other class should use Timmies, obviously.

Stalker is close to this, exception being DoT'ers...otherwise equal, with shield tanks losing out a tiny bit from doing less damage...but vamp is a solid choice for most classes.

Badger: good for melees...all of them...no, I'm not counting BMs here. So a little variety in usage.

Tommy is the one exception IMO. The heal proc is nice, until you compare it to Timmy. Heal gems aren't ognna help much for non-casters. Basically a pure BM pet...with the highest DPS, so is the most used. No brainer.

TImmy...well...is Timmy. What do you expect?


So, the trick is, buffing the pets, while not making them overpowered(especially PvE, where they are OK atm), make them into something useful, so they are decent options, some PvE, some PvP, some might be both. My suggestions to buff less used tag-a-longs are as follows:


Stalker: IF buffed at all, maybe 1%+0.25% m/e theft, not really needed though. Or min damage to 5 ish, to keep it on par with Companion buff stated below.

Tommy: Maybe 25% to heals to give healers a boost and another option instead of Timmy. No buff really needed though as a pure BM pet. Also this way Tommy users aren't too butthurt, amirite?

Devourer: When hitting a non-targeted opponent, ignore either Mitigation OR AC. Glitch could chose which one. Would make BMs with them WAY better in arena, PvE wouldn't be changed as these are still pretty solid on uptier. I also don't really think a buff focused for non-BMs would help here much, although ignoring mit/AC would help them do a wee bit of damage for non-BMs with pet skills.

Companion: Timmy's mit just pwns it if not BM, even if this one does "some" DPS. Buff Companion to 8% to make it equiv to stalkers, but better for defensive BM toons.

Cuddlebugs: Change prevent to reflect. Keep the 10%

Badger: Not really in need of a buff, as this pet is directed @ melee toons, and is used a decent amount by them. If anything, maybe 7% or 8% base haste.

Lizard: This is the troublesome pet, IRDK...maybe double the poison bonus, or make it proc every hit, and allow it to cause ruptures on other poison DoTs? Or maybe add an equal regrowth on BM like necro CA or something. Keep rabid up, heal from it w/o vamp, etc. Defo need more suggestions, as this one probs needs the biggest boost, but could easily become OP if done wrong.

TImmy: ....Timmy....TIMMEH!!!....buff regen to 50%, buff mitigation to 5%. Otherwise it's cool. But I really, REALLY, support these buffs to this under utilized pet. Please support!

K there you have it. No over buffs, but little more usefulness out of other pets. GG WP buff heals nao kthnxbai.


Edit: P.S. BMs really just need an added skill...most of these pets are good options, but current ac/mit/regen just outdoes w/e they dish out PvP wise. Maybe a skill to have all pets(with whips ofc) to ignore % or all AC/Mit as leveled(could be 1 with skill, then the other for Devourer buff), or a haste skill to bring them back up to par.

Also, yes I mean buff to Timmies. That is not a nerf at all. Making PvP more balanced is a buff to all of Nod!!

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by StormGuardian

Making a pet specifically for one class is what makes them less utilized:

Devourer: hitting lowest target is worthless as non-caster...if they're almost dead, they're gonna die anyway. Purely a BM pet...not used.

Venomback: adding a little poison is great for flat dps...would actually be beneficial for all non-BMs as the highest(or really close to) dps pet...BUT...the added DPS from lizards wouldn't help non-BMs overall compared to other choices. So, basically purely a BM pet...not used.

Companion and Cuddlebug, are all beneficial to all classes equally, and are all used somewhat. Companion is(read, should) only be used by BMs(or archer/BM hybrids) who want some extra mit. Every other class should use Timmies, obviously.

Stalker is close to this, exception being DoT'ers...otherwise equal, with shield tanks losing out a tiny bit from doing less damage...but vamp is a solid choice for most classes.

Badger: good for melees...all of them...no, I'm not counting BMs here. So a little variety in usage.

Tommy is the one exception IMO. The heal proc is nice, until you compare it to Timmy. Heal gems aren't ognna help much for non-casters. Basically a pure BM pet...with the highest DPS, so is the most used. No brainer.

TImmy...well...is Timmy. What do you expect?


So, the trick is, buffing the pets, while not making them overpowered(especially PvE, where they are OK atm), make them into something useful, so they are decent options, some PvE, some PvP, some might be both. My suggestions to buff less used tag-a-longs are as follows:


Stalker: IF buffed at all, maybe 1%+0.25% m/e theft, not really needed though. Or min damage to 5 ish, to keep it on par with Companion buff stated below.

Tommy: Maybe 25% to heals to give healers a boost and another option instead of Timmy. No buff really needed though as a pure BM pet. Also this way Tommy users aren't too butthurt, amirite?

Devourer: When hitting a non-targeted opponent, ignore either Mitigation OR AC. Glitch could chose which one. Would make BMs with them WAY better in arena, PvE wouldn't be changed as these are still pretty solid on uptier. I also don't really think a buff focused for non-BMs would help here much, although ignoring mit/AC would help them do a wee bit of damage for non-BMs with pet skills.

Companion: Timmy's mit just pwns it if not BM, even if this one does "some" DPS. Buff Companion to 8% to make it equiv to stalkers, but better for defensive BM toons.

Cuddlebugs: Change prevent to reflect. Keep the 10%

Badger: Not really in need of a buff, as this pet is directed @ melee toons, and is used a decent amount by them. If anything, maybe 7% or 8% base haste.

Lizard: This is the troublesome pet, IRDK...maybe double the poison bonus, or make it proc every hit, and allow it to cause ruptures on other poison DoTs? Or maybe add an equal regrowth on BM like necro CA or something. Keep rabid up, heal from it w/o vamp, etc. Defo need more suggestions, as this one probs needs the biggest boost, but could easily become OP if done wrong.

TImmy: ....Timmy....TIMMEH!!!....buff regen to 50%, buff mitigation to 5%. Otherwise it's cool. But I really, REALLY, support these buffs to this under utilized pet. Please support!

K there you have it. No over buffs, but little more usefulness out of other pets. GG WP buff heals nao kthnxbai.


Edit: P.S. BMs really just need an added skill...most of these pets are good options, but current ac/mit/regen just outdoes w/e they dish out PvP wise. Maybe a skill to have all pets(with whips ofc) to ignore % or all AC/Mit as leveled(could be 1 with skill, then the other for Devourer buff), or a haste skill to bring them back up to par.

Also, yes I mean buff to Timmies. That is not a nerf at all. Making PvP more balanced is a buff to all of Nod!!

I agree with almost everything you say.

Timmy was a mistake from the very start, but I don't know about nerfing it. It should've never been made, but unlike stalking, it was intentional.

I still maintain that the way to fix BMs is to link pet damage and all melee damage (including whips) in a beneficial way.