V1.308

[Sanluciferr]

Originally Posted by Gibson

If we have to have this change, could we please have a buff to Deflective Shield when facing DD casts (only)?

What would you like , 110% chances?

[locurasbeach]

I must do more duels, but first duels against DD casters with leveled raze (some at 93) are really awesome, they can kill me now quite fast. With casters with 0 in the new skill but oped skills my shield still works awesome.

I'm not asking for a nerf on casters nor a big buff on tankers, maybe just having some depletion gems as Exhaustion and mana depletes can be enough to balance this?, what i'm asking for is less comsupmption of mana/energy for meleers to be able to use high rk's and get the DD casters out of his magic mana/energy .

What you think?

[Barsoom]

On average, thumbs up.

Excellent job on the 3 minute rule. Thanks. Kinda with Boog on whether this is a minor nerf to archer/DoT users. That said, PvP is not my focus, and this won't change PvE so I'm still good. I didn't hear any complaining about DD casters needing a boost so I'm unclear on why Raze is necessary... but I probably don't listen as well as I should.

[hotshot64]

Originally Posted by Barsoom

On average, thumbs up.

Excellent job on the 3 minute rule. Thanks. Kinda with Boog on whether this is a minor nerf to archer/DoT users. That said, PvP is not my focus, and this won't change PvE so I'm still good. I didn't hear any complaining about DD casters needing a boost so I'm unclear on why Raze is necessary... but I probably don't listen as well as I should.

I see the complaining constantly. "Tanks resist too much. Tanks block too much. CNT is op. Tanks are op. Shields are op. Whips are op. Anything that lowers my dps is op." DPS is the name of this game and they'll always have the upper hand. At least something is being done to attempt to do a little balancing so I'm happy in that regard.

[xcasterx]

You did a good job on the three minute rule glitch.
I know i dont normally say nice things to you.

Maybe you should retweet this?

<3

[Gibson]

Hmmm San, yeah, since I have 85 in deflective shield, I would like to deflect 85% of the time. But I don't. If I did, the casters I face in arena would all be dead 85% of the time after their double huge casts. Perhaps Glitch could have a look at Deflective Shield and see if it is working properly? Because I certainly am not getting an 85% deflect rate. Or anything remotely like that. And yes, all my shield skills are 85 + (except improved bash and mirrored whatsit).

And what do other shield users think? All you other shield tanks out there? How often do you notice a successful deflect?

Would be interesting to find out.

[Sanluciferr]

Everytime a good shield user blocks he deflects, just fyi, just remember that you can block everything and sometimes it will seem that you blocked a dd and it was a melee hit or a pet or etc.

Dont hate the game hate the player imo, oh and to let people know that i saw a lot of low IQ people complaining that shields are useless now cause they can at max block for 5% since blocking grants up to 25%... thats just funny how dumb they are...here i will explain it for dummies as simple as i can:

You have a dice of 25 numbers compared to your oponents cnc per say... and you need to roll more than 12 lets say in this case scenario to be able to block, you roll a 16, your oponent Raze skill is 100 ( 20%) you will take 20% of 16 which is 3.2 so you will be able to block it since it still be higher than 12 (12,8).

I dont know if that makes any sense and helps someone to understand it, perhaps im wrong but thats how i believe it works, Correct me if i am wrong please.

[hotshot64]

Originally Posted by Gibson

Hmmm San, yeah, since I have 85 in deflective shield, I would like to deflect 85% of the time. But I don't. If I did, the casters I face in arena would all be dead 85% of the time after their double huge casts. Perhaps Glitch could have a look at Deflective Shield and see if it is working properly? Because I certainly am not getting an 85% deflect rate. Or anything remotely like that. And yes, all my shield skills are 85 + (except improved bash and mirrored whatsit).

And what do other shield users think? All you other shield tanks out there? How often do you notice a successful deflect?

Would be interesting to find out.

Even at 100% reflect rate the caster only takes like 1/3 of the damage you reflect at him, purely based on self-mitigation skills. After that, resist skills and cnt take their toll and that's why typically you won't see the enemy caster take much damage, if any.

[hotshot64]

Originally Posted by Sanlucifer

Everytime a good shield user blocks he deflects, just fyi, just remember that you can block everything and sometimes it will seem that you blocked a dd and it was a melee hit or a pet or etc.

Dont hate the game hate the player imo, oh and to let people know that i saw a lot of low IQ people complaining that shields are useless now cause they can at max block for 5% since blocking grants up to 25%... thats just funny how dumb they are...here i will explain it for dummies as simple as i can:

You have a dice of 25 numbers compared to your oponents cnc per say... and you need to roll more than 12 lets say in this case scenario to be able to block, you roll a 16, your oponent Raze skill is 100 ( 20%) you will take 20% of 16 which is 3.2 so you will be able to block it since it still be higher than 12 (12,8).

I dont know if that makes any sense and helps someone to understand it, perhaps im wrong but thats how i believe it works, Correct me if i am wrong please.

Say you have a 50% chance to block, which is approximately the max. Your enemy has maxed raze, reducing your chance to block by 20%. Your new max block against that particular opponent will be 40%, which is 80% of 50% (because we took 20% out of 50%). With a 40% chance to block and approximately an 80% (my personal number) chance to resist, when a DD is incoming you'll attempt to block (40% chance) then attempt to resist (80% chance) or the other way around, not sure which comes first. In the end though, you come out with a total 88% chance to stop that DD. Add in growl if you're a whipper, and prevents, and you come out to a max 90.253% chance to stop a DD, assuming you're not using gems.

Those are my personal numbers, you can get better, I think up to like 99% max. These numbers apply assuming you have cnt equal to your enemy's cnc, and agi/str equal to your enemy's cnc. Based on my own tests, if you have less than equal cnt, or agi/str, your numbers will drop rapidly until they're about 1/4 of your max, at which point they bottom out.

[Gibson]

Originally Posted by Sanlucifer

What would you like , 110% chances?

So clearly from Daer's calculations (thank you Daer) Deflective Shield does NOT give 100% to Deflect DDs and cause significant damage at max level. And please note San, Blocking simply stops the cast, Deflective Shield has a % chance to deflect it back onto the caster. It seems to work against archers, but what I'm saying is, it doesn't seem to be now as effective against DD casters. Again, thank you Daer, for your calculations It's clear my agi ratio is off. It didn't matter a huge amount before, but it does seem to now.

Whatever all you DD casters may feel (and I'd certainly be happy at the Raze patch if I were you), it still remains the case that shield users do NOT have much chance against DD casters. And I'm not talking about OP ones, either, simply ones at cap with level 85 skills (like I have in weaponry/shield skills). I think Glitch has given with one hand (ability to cleanse DOT affects) and taken with the other (Raze). I'm not entirely sure that the cost of Raze is worth it (as a shield user), since DOTs kill a lot slower than multiple casting.

[Sanluciferr]

you are not making any sense Gibson, there are none so blind as those who will not see. Everytime you block a dd you will deflect it with 100deflective shield dude what is your problem, do some testing, get your skill to lvl 100 and then complain.

You just cant test things vs others with different skills take 2 cap toons with cap skills and then complain.

A "you were right san" would be cool once you find out.

[Gibson]

A "you were right san" would be cool once you find out.[/QUOTE]

Well, you're right in that I have some work to do to reach 100 blocking and deflective shield, merely having 85 in each skill, so you're going to have to wait a bit for me to do that......

You're also missing the point of what I'm saying. But since by your argument I can't raise issues until I've got level 100 skills, I shall stop now because this is becoming a pointless thread.

I'm still interested in what OTHER SHIELD USERS have to say, however. PM me please. TY

[Sanluciferr]

My post sounded a little bit arrogant and i hate it, but i try to share the facts that i am aware of due of massive testing and experience, i can always be wrong though but i just cant stand people complaining without even testing, i used to be like that and i hate it.

[Enduir]

I've done no testing with raze tbh, but nonetheless geef legendary tank gear with base +25 Dur +25Cnt +25Agi pl0x.

[Iceblood]

Originally Posted by Enduir

I've done no testing with raze tbh, but nonetheless geef legendary tank gear with base +25 Dur +25Cnt +25Agi pl0x.

Support!

[hotshot64]

Originally Posted by Enduir

I've done no testing with raze tbh, but nonetheless geef legendary tank gear with base +25 Dur +25Cnt +25Agi pl0x.

Double support!

[Glitchless]

The raze math being thrown around by multiple people is not correct. You can't simply subtract the raze % from the block %. Raze at max skill negates 20% of would-be blocks - so if someone is blocking 50 of 100 casts that brings it down to 40 of 100 blocks.

Deflective shield at max skill would (and does) reflect 100% of blocked spells/ranged attacks.

[hotshot64]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

The raze math being thrown around by multiple people is not correct. You can't simply subtract the raze % from the block %. Raze at max skill negates 20% of would-be blocks - so if someone is blocking 50 of 100 casts that brings it down to 40 of 100 blocks.

Deflective shield at max skill would (and does) reflect 100% of blocked spells/ranged attacks.

Thanks for confirming my math :P mathing while drunk is hazardous at best.

[tartz]

complainin and whining alll the time ...blaaa blaaaal blaaa.....

Damnit ive been tank since arena frist stared and havent complaining i get beaten.....thats the tank JOB to get beaten up first.
You cant take damage forever.... if your teammates suck at doing damage dont come to complain. Its your wholeteam fault not jeff or casters or what ever. If you cant take beateing stop beeing a tank.
And about tank versus casters. Well get your suit, skills and pouch fixed and your good. If all good doesnt matter who your faceing DD or DoT. You need flexibility. And for DoTs..... yes they are good but not that good if your good as tank. Last season my team (melee only) was real threat to best DoT team. You just have to to do right thing and so do your teammates.
If you get killed in like 10-20sec... then in that time your team mates have to kill opponents... thats it if not then you need to work not complain.

start now whining on me

[Killda]

Originally Posted by tartz

complainin and whining alll the time ...blaaa blaaaal blaaa.....

Damnit ive been tank since arena frist stared and havent complaining i get beaten.....thats the tank JOB to get beaten up first.
You cant take damage forever.... if your teammates suck at doing damage dont come to complain. Its your wholeteam fault not jeff or casters or what ever. If you cant take beateing stop beeing a tank.
And about tank versus casters. Well get your suit, skills and pouch fixed and your good. If all good doesnt matter who your faceing DD or DoT. You need flexibility. And for DoTs..... yes they are good but not that good if your good as tank. Last season my team (melee only) was real threat to best DoT team. You just have to to do right thing and so do your teammates.
If you get killed in like 10-20sec... then in that time your team mates have to kill opponents... thats it if not then you need to work not complain.

start now whining on me

SUPPORT !!! ... i mean ... I fully agree tartz...